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  #31  
Old 22-12-2016, 10:53 AM
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Default Re: River Teifi Massive Slurry Pollution

The long term affects of neonicitinoids is quite well documented. The most sensitive invertebrates will kick the bucket on even a very low concentration (this stuff would wipe out every invertebrate in an Olympic swimming pool with 1 single drop).

On a wild river there are all sorts of variables - if it's a short term pollution some parts of a stream may be passed by - think if you've kicked up some mud wading - the flow will take it away, but it won't fill the river bank to bank. Smaller streams are probably most susceptible to a total wipe out.

The quantity of the pollutant in this particular case seems to have been huge, and downstream of the effected area is thick with it - bank to bank, so there you have the prospect of all life effected (no little back eddy that's passed by...). Invertebrates all react to different pollutants differently. Stoneflies are particularly susceptible to this sort of sewage/slurry damage - they will be gone, and lots of others too. They will take many years to repopulate the stream from up and downstream.
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  #32  
Old 22-12-2016, 11:26 AM
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Default Re: River Teifi Massive Slurry Pollution

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dunk View Post
The long term affects of neonicitinoids is quite well documented. The most sensitive invertebrates will kick the bucket on even a very low concentration (this stuff would wipe out every invertebrate in an Olympic swimming pool with 1 single drop).

On a wild river there are all sorts of variables - if it's a short term pollution some parts of a stream may be passed by - think if you've kicked up some mud wading - the flow will take it away, but it won't fill the river bank to bank. Smaller streams are probably most susceptible to a total wipe out.

The quantity of the pollutant in this particular case seems to have been huge, and downstream of the effected area is thick with it - bank to bank, so there you have the prospect of all life effected (no little back eddy that's passed by...). Invertebrates all react to different pollutants differently. Stoneflies are particularly susceptible to this sort of sewage/slurry damage - they will be gone, and lots of others too. They will take many years to repopulate the stream from up and downstream.
Thanks for that.
It is certainly my understanding of the situation. Do you have any further details of the incident itself?
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  #33  
Old 23-12-2016, 08:01 AM
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Default Re: River Teifi Massive Slurry Pollution

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dunk View Post
The long term affects of neonicitinoids is quite well documented. The most sensitive invertebrates will kick the bucket on even a very low concentration (this stuff would wipe out every invertebrate in an Olympic swimming pool with 1 single drop).

On a wild river there are all sorts of variables - if it's a short term pollution some parts of a stream may be passed by - think if you've kicked up some mud wading - the flow will take it away, but it won't fill the river bank to bank. Smaller streams are probably most susceptible to a total wipe out.

The quantity of the pollutant in this particular case seems to have been huge, and downstream of the effected area is thick with it - bank to bank, so there you have the prospect of all life effected (no little back eddy that's passed by...). Invertebrates all react to different pollutants differently. Stoneflies are particularly susceptible to this sort of sewage/slurry damage - they will be gone, and lots of others too. They will take many years to repopulate the stream from up and downstream.
Local sources are suggesting somewhere between 250,000 and 4 million litres of slurry have poured into the river via a drainage ditch and tributary.

I must stress none of this is officially confirmed at the moment and the investigations are ongoing but it's a massive massive incident.

The media reports of two miles of river being seriously effected are quite conservative. Surveys up to seven miles down river of the incident were showing almost complete fish kills.

Again can I urge all anglers to take less than a minute to do the following...

Last day to respond to WAG's NVZ Consultation.

This is the easiest way...

Can I ask everyone to PLEASE take less than a minute to open the following link, copy and paste Carmarthen Fisherman's Federations brilliant response to Welsh Assembly Goverments NVZ Consultation and email it to water@wales.gsi.gov.uk

CONSULTATION CLOSES TODAY

CFF response - WAG consultation on Nitrate Vulnerable Zones | Sea Trout Fishing Forums
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  #34  
Old 24-12-2016, 05:18 PM
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Default Re: River Teifi Massive Slurry Pollution

The thoughts and views and a full update from local Teifi angling expert Steffan Jones
https://www.facebook.com/permalink.p...34977640082695
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  #35  
Old 07-01-2017, 10:14 AM
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Default Re: River Teifi Massive Slurry Pollution

Any updates on the Teifi spillage?
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  #36  
Old 16-01-2017, 01:25 PM
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Default Re: River Teifi Massive Slurry Pollution

WTF 'Green' power plant blamed after 1,000 fish die at River Teifi in West Wales | Daily Mail Online
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  #37  
Old 16-01-2017, 06:28 PM
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Default Re: River Teifi Massive Slurry Pollution

Interesting.
So were the farmers negligible, or the persons running the plant for the farmers?
It could also be argued that these plants allow farmers to continue to farm intensively (economically) given the onset of NVZs?
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  #38  
Old 16-01-2017, 09:11 PM
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Default Re: River Teifi Massive Slurry Pollution

Taken from the NFU's "Ambition" paper on AD's

"With income only from the sale of energy (and some additional benefits from the replacement of purchased fertilisers), on-farm AD plants should be subject to ‘light touch’ regulation and ought to be welcomed by local planners (subject to the usual planning process and conditions)"

An interesting read and you wonder where this will all end with Brexit looming

https://www.google.pt/url?sa=t&sourc..._VRXfqC4D9v6MQ
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  #39  
Old 24-01-2017, 12:23 PM
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Default Re: River Teifi Massive Slurry Pollution

Careful what you hope for with regards to the outcomes of the NVZ Consultation. There are some facts and figures (not been made public unless via an FOI) that suggest the current designation procedures are yet to bring about any tangible improvement in surface waters as well as groundwaters. And with groundwater, the aspect of historical contamination or deterioration is a very grey area and really gets in way of being able to show any 'progress' if any that has been made during the lifespan of the NVZ.

None of the previously allocated NVZ's are yet to be brought out of designation (to my knowledge), showing very little in the way of hope to those whose land lies within an NVZ. So having voluntarily allowed sampling of waters on their property, landowners are then faced with an indefinite designation period which is not exactly explained nor communicated very well by the regulator. The relationship between the NRW and NFU remains disjointed (and disruptive) so designating the whole of Wales, would lead to such regulatory challenges, it would not make a blind bit of difference to the water quality we wish to protect so highly.

As for the issue of rural communities branching out to utilise renewable energy, then no one can doubt the potential for AD. However, again the regulation of permits and exemptions lies via both the Local Authority and NRW. And when one another already have difficulties dealing with more traditional planning applications anyway, there is little wonder such instances occur.

The biggest risk to our watercourses and fish stocks is one of proximity. By that I mean proximity to significant point sources of contamination, there are mitigating factors in how robust a catchment is to pollution incidents, though this is dependent on the number of repeat incidents, each reducing the resilience of the catchment a little further. In catchments suffering chronic (or persistent) pollution (or pollutants), this resilience is markedly reduced. There are of course those significant incidents that should never occur...

This is where the current regulatory framework is failing most - at allowing more and more 'significant sources' to be placed within striking distance of the main arteries of highly sensitive environments. There appears to be a lack of keeping pace with the regulatory framework, a lack of cohesion and organisation since the split from the Environment Agency.

To my mind, as the regulator, a certain duty of care needs to be exercised, and whilst they regard Wales as a 'natural resource', presumably to be used first and protected afterwards - I don't hold out much hope.


WF
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  #40  
Old 24-01-2017, 05:12 PM
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Default Re: River Teifi Massive Slurry Pollution

Quote:
Originally Posted by welshfisher88 View Post
Careful what you hope for with regards to the outcomes of the NVZ Consultation. There are some facts and figures (not been made public unless via an FOI) that suggest the current designation procedures are yet to bring about any tangible improvement in surface waters as well as groundwaters. And with groundwater, the aspect of historical contamination or deterioration is a very grey area and really gets in way of being able to show any 'progress' if any that has been made during the lifespan of the NVZ.

None of the previously allocated NVZ's are yet to be brought out of designation (to my knowledge), showing very little in the way of hope to those whose land lies within an NVZ. So having voluntarily allowed sampling of waters on their property, landowners are then faced with an indefinite designation period which is not exactly explained nor communicated very well by the regulator. The relationship between the NRW and NFU remains disjointed (and disruptive) so designating the whole of Wales, would lead to such regulatory challenges, it would not make a blind bit of difference to the water quality we wish to protect so highly.

As for the issue of rural communities branching out to utilise renewable energy, then no one can doubt the potential for AD. However, again the regulation of permits and exemptions lies via both the Local Authority and NRW. And when one another already have difficulties dealing with more traditional planning applications anyway, there is little wonder such instances occur.

The biggest risk to our watercourses and fish stocks is one of proximity. By that I mean proximity to significant point sources of contamination, there are mitigating factors in how robust a catchment is to pollution incidents, though this is dependent on the number of repeat incidents, each reducing the resilience of the catchment a little further. In catchments suffering chronic (or persistent) pollution (or pollutants), this resilience is markedly reduced. There are of course those significant incidents that should never occur...

This is where the current regulatory framework is failing most - at allowing more and more 'significant sources' to be placed within striking distance of the main arteries of highly sensitive environments. There appears to be a lack of keeping pace with the regulatory framework, a lack of cohesion and organisation since the split from the Environment Agency.

To my mind, as the regulator, a certain duty of care needs to be exercised, and whilst they regard Wales as a 'natural resource', presumably to be used first and protected afterwards - I don't hold out much hope.


WF
Excellent summary of the current situation (as I see it).

No doubt you will be castigated for being negative, and a harbinger of doom, in due course.
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