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  1. #11

    Default Re: First go at trotting

    Disappointed to see this thread wasn't started by a horse.
    Musha rig um du rum da

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    2,872

    Default Re: First go at trotting

    Jeff

    The only time I'll fish the waggler on the stick line is in a very strong downstream wind so you can sink the line and fish the bow, dragging line of the bottom.

    In the 80's the stick dominated a high percentage of river matches however when the water authorities started cleaning up the rivers we tended to find that the rivers which used to take a week to fine down and clear, tended to start clearing after 2 days. Also with increased water abstraction over the last decade they ran clearer and lower than in previous years and as a result, the fish moved out into the flow and on many rivers the far bank.

    The stick, with a standard match rod is most effective at 1- 2 rod lengths out, with a slight upstream wind you can go that bit further. The waggler comes into it's own at 3 rod lengths + however in good conditions you are more likely to catch well on the waggler than the stick because the majority of fish will favour the middle to far bank of the river, particularly if the river is low and clear.

    I can fish both methods equally well and although I've won a lot more matches on the waggler, like most anglers I prefer nothing better than a good session on the stick however the conditions have to be right and that is normally a little colour and a bit of extra flow to rule the waggler out.

    As for floats I stick with peacock as Kamasan do a very good range of fat, thin and insert peacock floats to suit most scenarios. The only exception is if I want to fish meat in summer and drag it along the bottom or fish a large piece of flake at range for chub in winter in which case I'll use a styrofoam or balsa waggler.
    Last edited by dave b; 15-11-2016 at 10:00 PM.

  3. #13

    Default Re: First go at trotting

    The Angling Times has some nicely illustrated set ups for trotting different types of river here here

    Apparently cormorant quills make a good substitute for crow quills in the construction of ye traditional avon float, I wonder how they get away with selling those?












    Musha rig um du rum da

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Ecclesfield Parish
    Posts
    3,897

    Default Re: First go at trotting

    Trotting ... with a waggler?

    FWIW.
    There's more bullsh!t in fly fishing than there is in a Kansas feedlot - Lefty Kreh

  5. #15

    Default Re: First go at trotting

    FWIW normally means for what it's worth, not sure how that applies here?

    e.g. FWIW wagglers seem to work pretty well trotting.

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    2,872

    Default Re: First go at trotting

    TR

    The term trotting comes from letting the float run, (think horse, run=trot). The waggler is one of the most effective float tactics used on rivers however it's rarely employed by trout anglers in pursuit of grayling.

  7. #17
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Wessex
    Posts
    966

    Default Re: First go at trotting

    Large Roach are rarely found in the same location as small (iphone ) Roach.
    If bigger Roach are present they will be at the downstream end of the swim or hard on the bottom very carefully inspecting and selecting the odd tipbit or two.
    To get these fish you cast outside your feed line, nearer the bank, speed it down beyond the shoal area then tighten up and let the float swing back behind the taking zone, you then stop the tackle and proceed to "boss the river" as you inch your bait downstream.

    Big Roach often feed better in the last hour/s of daylight, lay in places that are harder to fish, more often on large baits and take their time eating a bait so dont be in a rush to strike,

    Often the first sign you have hooked a big Roach is it surfacing immediately following the strike, it is also the time when a good fish will manage to 'get off' when hooked by a learner.
    Worse is that loosing a big Roach in this manner will often inflict the kiss of death on the swim.

    Forget maggots for big Roach, instead fish bread, it is the supreme bait for the better fish and all my best fish have come using bread, 1/4 of a slice of Warburtons

    Lastly, you say "the Iphone size roach that take my bait as soon as it hits the water" are you certain they ARE roach and not.......eerrrrrr.........dace?

    Whatever, have fun while it lasts, come the rains and they can/will turn off like a tap.

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
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    UK
    Posts
    2,872

    Default Re: First go at trotting

    EC

    In winter the fish on many venues migrate en mass, Herford on the Wye, Yarm on the Tees, March on the Nene, Kirkstead on the Witham etc. Big fish, little fish they all shoal together for safety so you have big fish and little fish together.

    Sorry when it comes to winter fishing I disagree with your post particularly the bit about big roach surfacing as soon as hooked as they are powerful fish and give better account of themselves than chub of a similar size.

    I also disagree about speeding your bait down the inside line and then swinging it back, would you do that with a fly? It's the most unnatural presentation you can get and that is something big roach rarely tolerate. If you want to get bread flake to them down the peg, you simply do it by chucking a small bomb down the peg using a quiver tip. It's a very effective way of fishing if that's what you like doing.

    The bit about rain coming and turning the fish off like a tap is the biggest misnomer of all because every roach venue I've fished, fishes best with a touch of water and colour in and that's usually when the big fish feed.

    The near side often inches from the bank providing you have depth, is one of the areas you need to prime for the last hour as that is when the big fish come in hugging the shelves looking for food.

    Best conditions on the Wye in winter are 2.5-3ft up and a little colour. Most other rivers are between 6 and 18 ins up with a little colour and the big roach will often come right on top of the feed particularly if they are feeding confidently. The key to getting them feed confidently is correct feeding and competition for the food. You can do it with maggot, you can do it with caster however bread is more of an instant bait which you have to be very careful how you feed.

    Roach fishing is as much about feeding as it is presentation and although you're a big advocate of bread, the only fish I would use bread for in winter is chub unless I was on a canal or a very slow river like the Nene at March where bread punch becomes a very viable option fishing for mainly small fish.

    The best bait for attracting and holding bigger roach is hemp and caster however if it's cold and clear maggot will still catch big fish, the beauty being you simply don't know what you'll hook next. I'd also never advocate bread for somebody trying to get to grips with the basic principles of trotting because first of all he needs to get to grips with the basics of feeding and presentation and maggot is the simplest bait to start with.
    Last edited by dave b; 16-11-2016 at 03:18 PM.

  9. #19

    Default Re: First go at trotting

    Sorry about the size (iPhone) reference, it just fits and I'm not about to measure or weigh them!

    definitely roach with their bright red fins and orange eyes and deeper, rounder outline. There are Dace in there too and I was surprised how markedly different they appear, they look more like the Chub than the roach to me. And yes...I'm sure they are Dace and not small Chub!

    And Bleak

    And Minnows

  10. #20
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Wessex
    Posts
    966

    Default Re: First go at trotting

    Hi Dave,
    Nice to know your still on your peg.

    Having crossed keyboards with you on this subject a number of times I know you come from a match angling background which is why you advise the methods tou do, and believe/know they are the way to success, or for you, winning.

    I (and maybe the OP) come from the exact opposite, and I also fish the Wessex rivers atleast twice every week throughout each year, for both game and coarse fish.

    The OP is extremely lucky in his pursuit of bigger Roach because two books have been written by a very dedicated Wessex Roach angler Mark Wintle (Big Roach 1&2) who has caught many very big Roach from the river Frome.
    Interestingly Mark graduated to specialist angling from match fishing

    Enjoy your fishing Dave, whichever way you choose, and if your down my way pm me and we can have a day together
    Last edited by empty creel; 16-11-2016 at 07:10 PM.

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