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  1. #1

    Default New Zealand and visiting anglers

    The New Zealand Fly Fishing Forum - Board Index Anyone thinking of future trips to NZ, this is worth a look, particularly the threads on overcrowding and positivity.

  2. #2

    Default Re: New Zealand and visiting anglers

    The positivity thread has suddenly disappeared. Guess because it had lapsed into negativity and abuse towards visiting anglers.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: New Zealand and visiting anglers

    To be honest this isn't really surprising, this situation has been coming to head for some time now and when I was last there between Dec '16 & Feb '17 there were already significant rumblings about visiting anglers. The fishery is undoubtedly under pressure as a whole and whilst I accept that some of that pressure is coming from overseas fisherman there does seem to be a tendency for native anglers to place all of the blame at the overseas anglers door. One of the biggest complaints (and I've experienced it myself) is anglers who've hiked into the backcountry being jumped by anglers who chopper in. This is (to put it mildly) very annoying and completely unacceptable but the question has to be asked why it's allowed to happen? This problem could be helped by expanding the no-fly zones. Why not make the whole of the Kahurangi national park (home to the famous Karamea & Upper Mokihinui amongst many others) a no-fly zone or at the very least a no-fly zone for say January and February? I've always wanted to the fish the Upper reaches of the Dingle Burn, a river which flows in Lake Hawea. To get there you need to hike over the Ahuriri saddle. It's a tough tramp but one which is relatively easy for the experienced hiker. However, anglers being choppered in are up there almost every day so it's completely pointless to make the trip. Again, why is this allowed to happen? Unfortunately whilst preventing/limiting helicopter trips would make sense it's never going to happen as there's to many lodges (e.g. Owen River Lodge) which would scream blue murder if it you tried.

    Whilst angling pressure is certainly an issue the biggest threat to the NZ fishery is the dairy industry. A drive through the McKenzie country via SH8 on a sunny day is a beautiful experience with the Southern Alps glistening on the horizon. However, equally astonishing is the sight of enormous irrigators sucking the land and rivers dry in order to terraform the land so that grass can grow for huge herds of dairy cattle. The scale of water abstraction in NZ is astonishing and the deleterious effect its had on the freshwater environment undeniable. I may be wrong about this but as far as I understand it nobody seems to monitor the populations of freshwater invertebrates in NZ. I'm an active member of the Riverfly monitoring team on my clubs waters but if you ask Kiwi anglers if they have a similar scheme you get blank looks, one angler I met on a spring creek was completely dismissive of the whole thing!

    I beginning to ramble now but if there's any Kiwi anglers reading this then I guess what I'm trying to say is that yes angler pressure is undoubtedly an issue but if you don't start to look after the fishery by fighting back against the dairy industry then pretty soon you're going to have a fishery which no overseas angler will want to come and fish!

  4. #4

    Default Re: New Zealand and visiting anglers

    The whole forum has now shut down, guess there is some discussion about future direction.
    Bongoch, I was there again earlier this year and the destruction caused to the lower reaches of what were beautiful rivers by extraction and pollution continues with seemingly no end to it.
    The businesses based on guided and private access fishing are certainly a big factor in the pressure on famous and back country waters. For sure many of the clients for this fishing are from overseas, expect to have priority and are paying handsomely for it. Those businesses are making no complaints about numbers of overseas anglers. With the introduction of a separate non-resident licence and the requirement for an additional back country endorsement the ratio of overseas to resident anglers in the mainly affected areas is becoming clear.
    Understandably there is resentment from residents who find their fishing really severely impacted, as you say often by helicoptered in trophy hunters (anglers?) .
    Fortunately there is still excellent fishing away from these hot-spots for those prepared to find their way to it. However, with the dwindling lower reaches, especially South Island, even that is under threat and some more effective regulation will need to be implemented and enforced if the best of NZ fly fishing is not to become even more the preserve of the very wealthy. I for one would welcome fair regulation (anglers, fishing businesses and especially farming) that turned the decline around.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: New Zealand and visiting anglers

    Your certainly right about there being great fishing outside of the backcountry. Don't get me wrong I'd love to fish rivers such as the Karamea and Mokihinui but with choppers going in there near enough everyday what's the point? The first time I went out there I got jumped twice by chopper anglers whilst trying to fish supposedly remote rivers. The truth is no backcountry rivers are remote anymore, you can stay in a lodge, chopper into a remote river which would take days to hike into and fly back to the lodge in time for cocktails before dinner.

    However, in saying that it must be said that there are a number of utter bellends amongst overseas anglers. I was around the Lewis Pass area in Feb '15, a mouse year and some of the stuff I saw (people jumping a couple of pools upstream of other anglers, people camping at specific pools in an effort to land a double figure fish) were shocking. As far as I'm concerned these people aren't anglers and give all overseas anglers a bad name. Last time I was over I avoided the Lewis Pass area altogether due to this.

    The situation with agricultural abstraction and pollution is for me the main issue facing the NZ fishery. Given the importance of farming to the NZ economy however it's not going to be easily solved. I remember reading that the lower reaches of the once renowned Selwyn river had been declared officially dead. This is a fate which a number of NZ's rivers now face.
    Last edited by Bongoch; 09-04-2018 at 07:00 PM.

  6. #6

    Default Re: New Zealand and visiting anglers

    This sounds like Alaska. You hear about all the great far out fishing spots then the reality is you see all the float planes and more float planes.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: New Zealand and visiting anglers

    Quote Originally Posted by Bongoch View Post
    Your certainly right about there being great fishing outside of the backcountry. Don't get me wrong I'd love to fish rivers such as the Karamea and Mokihinui but with choppers going in there near enough everyday what's the point? The first time I went out there I got jumped twice by chopper anglers whilst trying to fish supposedly remote rivers. The truth is no backcountry rivers are remote anymore, you can stay in a lodge, chopper into a remote river which would take days to hike into and fly back to the lodge in time for cocktails before dinner.

    However, in saying that it must be said that there are a number of utter bellends amongst overseas anglers. I was around the Lewis Pass area in Feb '15, a mouse year and some of the stuff I saw (people jumping a couple of pools upstream of other anglers, people camping at specific pools in an effort to land a double figure fish) were shocking. As far as I'm concerned these people aren't anglers and give all overseas anglers a bad name. Last time I was over I avoided the Lewis Pass area altogether due to this.

    The situation with agricultural abstraction and pollution is for me the main issue facing the NZ fishery. Given the importance of farming to the NZ economy however it's not going to be easily solved. I remember reading that the lower reaches of the once renowned Selwyn river had been declared officially dead. This is a fate which a number of NZ's rivers now face.
    I fished the Selwyn a couple of weeks ago Bongoch, there are very good fish in lower section coming in from Ellesmere, and the fishing is good in the top section, but alas there is no middle section as it has run dry from abstractionNew Zealand and visiting anglers.

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  8. #8
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    Default Re: New Zealand and visiting anglers

    The valley mentioned was featured on the R4 farming programme this morning. Huge amounts of intensive livestock farming, deer/sheep/beef. All was good, no downside mentioned....
    Growing old disgracefully!

  9. #9

    Default Re: New Zealand and visiting anglers


  10. #10
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    Default Re: New Zealand and visiting anglers

    Quote Originally Posted by rockslider View Post
    I fished the Selwyn a couple of weeks ago Bongoch, there are very good fish in lower section coming in from Ellesmere, and the fishing is good in the top section, but alas there is no middle section as it has run dry from abstractionNew Zealand and visiting anglers.

    Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk
    There used to be some really good rivers (both freestone & spring creek) on the Canterbury Plains but alas a large number of the freestone rivers now run dry for the majority of the year due to abstraction whilst spring creeks are suffering from agricultural run off leading to increased phosphate levels and eutrophication. A better balance has to be found between agricultural need and the needs of the natural environment. It's not an easy problem to solve and one which is not unique to NZ.

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