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Thread: Dye question

  1. #11

    Default Re: Dye question

    Possibly, rather than a "scientific" reason, as such it is more likely to be an optical one as far as we're concerned. As it's much easier to darken a dye than lighten it

  2. #12

    Default Re: Dye question

    Agree....easier to darken and get the right colour especially if experimenting.Also some dyes absorb quicker.....pink is very powerful.
    Last edited by jeffhirst; 28-06-2018 at 08:49 AM.

  3. #13

    Default Re: Dye question

    I accept it is easier to adjust the darker dye by adding more if required, but that is not my question.

    If you already have your quantities worked out exactly, from past experience, and you know you want, say, 1.0 g of yellow, and 0.05 g of red to give you sunburst, then what is the difference between:

    1) adding 1.0 g of yellow and, after a bit, adding 0.05 g of red

    2) adding 1.0 g of yellow and 0.05 g of red together

    If the answer is that it needs more time in the yellow/less time in the red, would it then give you the same result by say, adding 1.0 g of yellow plus 0.025 g of red at the same time?

    Or is it a case of the yellow occupying receptor sites that it gets to ahead of the red, so the red has to look for other sites and it ends up giving a different look than it would if they were added at the same time?

    I'm just curious to know if anyone has worked all this out.

    Col
    Please note that any views expressed in this post may be those of the
    originator and do not necessarily reflect those of the reader.

  4. #14
    Join Date
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    Hertfordshire, in the middle of the fly fishing desert
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    Default Re: Dye question

    Gut reaction is that its probably to do with speed of saturation of the fibres with the dye. After all unless the dye is totally absorbed (ie the water is clear at the end) then its going to affect the colour. Of course if this is the case then you could get around this by adding the dyes at the same time by using proportionally less of the dye that is normally added second.

    Thats my thoughts anyway.

    Steve

  5. #15

    Default Re: Dye question

    I'm tending to think that as he is just using 'guesstimated' amounts, rather than weighing out exact amounts, the plan is to get the yellow well established in a non time-dependent fashion. Only when he is happy with the density of the yellow does he add the red. Then he keeps an eye on the colour until he is happy with the alteration to the hue that the red has brought-about - ie a time-dependent second stage. Or something like that... Interesting anyway. Just this morning I had a go at doing some WOIGO deer hair, and I tried the same sort of thing - giving it a good long time in the yellow base colour, before adding the traces of the other ingredients... then kept an eye on it as it changed. Quite like the result.

    Col
    Please note that any views expressed in this post may be those of the
    originator and do not necessarily reflect those of the reader.

  6. #16

    Default Re: Dye question

    Quote Originally Posted by Cap'n Fishy View Post
    The reason (if there is a difference in the result) has to be scientific, surely? For sure, do it both ways, and then look at the results, side-by-side, and see what difference there is, if any. And that is my question... what is the difference, if any?

    Col
    This question interested me, as I do a fair bit of stove top dyeing on small material quantities and always follow the same procedure exactly to get my end colour, but I don'y know why I do it.

    I've just googled looking for "science" and this link may be of interest and indeed provide an answer.

    Acid Dyes - Dissolving and Trouble Shooting

  7. #17

    Default Re: Dye question

    Quote Originally Posted by suzuki15hp View Post
    I've just googled looking for "science" and this link may be of interest and indeed provide an answer.

    Acid Dyes - Dissolving and Trouble Shooting
    Aye, I found that one, looking for answers. This paragraph may have a bearing...

    "Often when you have a mix of 2 or more colors, the pure colors in the mix are of a different molecular weight, size or composition, and some colors "strike" faster than others, even if the mix is of the same type of acid dyes. If you have a leveling dye (small molecules) mixed with a pre-metalized dye (much larger molecules), the leveling dye will strike much faster than the pre-metallized. The color you were expecting might not come up until very late in the dye bath. With mixes like this, it is very important to add your acid late in the process or use Ammonium Sulfate instead of Vinegar or Citric Acid."

    Alex Ferguson was telling me he reckoned different sizes of molecules played an important part in which colours get in first. He was saying although yellow is a "weak" colour, spectrally, it is a very potent colour when it comes to dyeing.

    Col
    Please note that any views expressed in this post may be those of the
    originator and do not necessarily reflect those of the reader.

  8. #18

    Default Re: Dye question

    Don't forget, the nature & condition of the base material can vary as well - this can be due to its age/length of time &/or method of storage, time of year it was culled, & possibly the micro-differences in the water quality.

  9. #19
    Join Date
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    Fort Wayne Indiana USA
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    198

    Default Re: Dye question

    It only takes a small amount of red to make a change to yellow. Red will quickly dominate yellow but not vice versa.

  10. #20

    Default Re: Dye question

    Quote Originally Posted by wsbailey View Post
    It only takes a small amount of red to make a change to yellow. Red will quickly dominate yellow but not vice versa.
    Yep - I think we all realise that. The question is what difference will it make to the outcome if you add the large amount of yellow and the tiny amount of red together, compared to adding the yellow first, and only adding the red, once the yellow has struck.

    Col
    Please note that any views expressed in this post may be those of the
    originator and do not necessarily reflect those of the reader.

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