Thanks Thanks:  0
Likes Likes:  0
Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 29

Thread: Entomology

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    North Pennines
    Posts
    2,388

    Default Entomology

    Hi', All. I was going to type up a list of just the more important of the Olives for river fishing; but decided it was quicker to copy a rather more comprehensive list I made out last year for SAB and Adipose Fin.
    I hope it is OK

    Seasonal Appearance of Up-winged Flies -- the Ephemeroptera
    ( The more common species )[B]

    March and April period, first peak flight period for Baetis rhodani, Large Dark Olive ( Medium-large in size, LDO may be seen at any time throughout the season )
    The duns may be copied using:-- Greenwell's Glory, wet and dry, hackled or winged, and Greenwell's Glory nymph. Also copied by Blue Dun, wet and dry: Kite's Imperial, dry; Waterhen Bloa, wet; Olive Nymph; Gold-Ribbed Hare's Ear; Olive Funneldun, dry; Olive Comparadun, dry, and Olive Klinkhamer, dry/emerger; also Olive Quill. dry. The female spinners may be copied using:--Large Red Spinner, which matches the female in name, also, wet and dry, and Pheasant Tail, wet and dry. On the chalk streams in particular, Lunn's Particular. Typically, size 14 hook.

    April, second of the common olive-hued flies, Rhithrogena semicolorata, Olive Upright ( Larger then LDO )
    Duns may be copied using:-- Greenwell's Glory, wet and dry, hackled or winged; also GG nymph; Olive Upright, wet; suitable Olive Funneldun or Comparadun, dry could be tried, or Olive Klinkhamer. Female Spinners may be copied using:-- Yellow Upright, the mature female has the same name, dry, or Olive Upright, wet and Olive Quill, dry. Hook size 12.


    May and June period, !st peak flight period for Baetis vernus, Medium Olive ( Medium size, smaller than LDO, and may be seen for almost all of the trout season. )
    Duns may be copied using:-- Greenwell's Glory, wet and dry, hackled or winged, also GG nymph and Gold- Ribbed Hare's Ear; Rough Olive, wet and dry; Olive Quill, dry, and Olive Upright, wet; also Olive Funneldun or Olive Comparadun, dry. Female spinners may be copied using:-- Red Spinner, the mature female has the same name, wet and dry; Pheasant Tail, wet and dry also Lunn's Particular, again. Hook size smaller than LDO.

    April to October, first of the small yellow duns, Centroptilum luteolum , Small Spurwing ( Small)
    Duns may be copied using:-- Tups Indispensable, wet and dry; but Snipe and Yellow is a good a good wet spider pattern; also small Yellow Comparadun or hackled Badger and Yellow, both dry. Female spinners may be copied using:- Goddard's suggested Lunn's Yellow Boy; but try dry Badger and Yellow or a Yellow Comparadun. Hook size 16 or 18.

    May to October, second of the small yellow duns, Baetis fuscatus, Pale Watery ( Small )
    Copied by virtually the same as Small spurwing in both dun and spinner forms.

    May to July or August, mainly, the first big yellow dun, Heptagenia sulphurea, Yellow May Dun ( Between LDO and Olive Upright in size)
    Not a very popular angler's fly in my area, but I would try a large Tup's Indispensable. Hook size 14 or even 12.

    May to October , the darkest small dun, Alainites muticus, Iron Blue Dun ( Small )
    Duns may be copied using:-- Snipe and Purple, wet or Iron Blue dun, wet or dry; but I have had fish on a small black gnat. Copy spinners using a dry Houghton Ruby, but a little hackled Red Spinner may be tried.
    Hook size 16 or 18.

    May to June, mainly, but later also, Ephemera danica, Mayfly ( Very large )
    The duns are the Green Drakes, use pattern of the same name or any one of many different artificials. As a nymph copy, try Walker's Mayfly Nymph. The spinners are known as Grey Drakes. Again, lots of spinner patterns.
    Hook sizes 8 to 10, long shank.

    I'm going for my evening meal, and will try to finish off tomorrow. TC
    PS I don't know how FFF handle stuff like the lists I have made -- this is a suck it and see effort. Fingers crossed!!
    It sems to have worked. I will be finishing the list, adding a few patterns of my own, and making suggestions re spent flies, which are exhausted female spinners. Not everyone will agree with the selected patterns; but we can't please everyone. I can only say what works for my friends and myself. on our waters. There is considerable duplication, so the overall list of patterns is smaller than it looks on paper or the screen. For practical purposes, several patterns may be left out. Ten years ago. roughly, I would not have included Comparaduns or Funnelduns or Klinks. I would suggest using both the lists and the advice of your local tackle dealers. After all, they know what sells best in your area.
    Last edited by guest3; 23-06-2009 at 09:16 PM.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    North Pennines
    Posts
    2,388

    Default

    Hi', All.
    Here is page 2 of the fly selection 'bumph'. Although I set out to cover the true Olive family, only, There are three upwings in this selection that are not olives. Olive Upright, you have seen, BWO and August Dun are also included. BWO, because it is the most important of the upwinged summer flies on rivers; August Dun, because it is so big, so bonny and pretty common -- more so than its three close relatives, I would think. The big spinner is a favourite of Malcom Greenhalgh, who also ties Caenis and Greenfly copies -- talk about extremes!!

    Seasonal Appearance of Up-winged Flies -- the Ephemeroptera (2)

    May to October, mainly July and August, our smallest dark dun, Baetis scambus, Small Dark Olive, also known as July Dun ( Small )
    Duns may be copied using:-- Snipe and Yellow, wet, surprisingly, perhaps, the Snipe and Purple, also. SandN is a nymph copy, while SandP is more like the dun fly, drowned!! The female spinner is Small Red Spinner, so use a dry or wet Red Spinner. Goddard suggests Lunn' Particular, again, but you will find that Pheasant Tail, wet and dry is OK. Hook sizes 16 or 18

    June onwards, best late afternoon and evening, up until October, Serratella ignita, Blue-Winged Olive ( Medium )
    Duns may be be copied using:-- Greenwell's Glory, wet and dry; Rough Olive, wet and dry; Poult Bloa, and as with most patterns, a number of modern dressings for numphs, emergers and duns. Sherry Spinner is the name of the mature female, and is the best -known dry spinner pattern; Pheasant Tail mat be tried ,wet and dry, or Ginger Quill, dry. Orange Quill is also used, probably more popular further south than in Cumbria. Hook sizes 14

    August and September, fairly common, is Ecdyonuris dispar, the August or Autumn Dun, ( Size between Ol.Upright and Mayfly )
    Duns copied by August Brown ( Goddard suggestion); for nymphs try Gold Ribbed Hare's Ear or a Hare's Ear body with brown partridge tails (short) and brown partridge hackle. The mature female is Great Red Spinner, copy using Red Spinner or Pheasant Tail, both wet and dry. Hook size 12, even size 10

    August and Saptember., second peak emergence of Medium Olive

    September and October, second peak of Large Dark Olive

    There are many more species in the Order, Ephemeroptera ( the Upwinged flies ) but the lists probably cover the more common and widely distributed. In Cumbria we have most of the 51 recorded species. Caenis are not listed because they are so small and more of a speciality, March Brown are well-known but not widely distributed, We have all of the Big Ecdyonurids up here, but they are not copied by many anglers as they are not usually seen in quantity, apart from August Dun and, to a lesser degree, Large Brook.

    For lists of dressings, I often refer to The New Illustrated Dictionary of Trout Flies, by John Roberts, but I am sure that almost any and every fly dressing could be found by asking on the FFF.

    Here are a few of my own tried and trusted patterns that are not hard to tie.

    Dark Eden Olive:--- Tying thread, Olive silk. Body, waxed thread, ribbed fine gold wire. Tails, mixed dark olive and dark blue dun cock hackle barbs ( named fibres by some ) Front shoulder hackle, dark olive, second hackle, dark blue dun, cock hackles, several turns of each. ( Body may be varnished, try it for effect to darken body )

    Medium Eden Olive :--- Tying thread, Primrose silk; body waxed tying thread, ribbed fine gold wire. Tails, mixed medium olive and medium blue dun cock hackle barbs. Front shoulder hackle, medium olive, second hackle, medium blue dun, cock hackles, several turns of each.

    Light Eden Olive :--- Tying thread, palest yellow silk or nylon etc, Body, tying thread, ribbed gold thread or fine gold wire. Tails, mixed golden olive or pale olive cock hackle barbs mixed with lightest blue dun or plae grey. Front shoulder hackle, golden or pale olive cock, second hackle, lightest blue dun or pale grey, cock hackles, several turns of each.

    These dry flies cover the Olives, from Dark Olive through Medium Olive to the Pale Watery group, which includes Small Spurwing and Pale Evening Dun, if it's on your water -- also will do when the larger Spurwing is found or Yellow May, in the right sizes. Tie them up wet, with fewer turns of hackle, to copy the drowned duns.

    The larvae of the upwinged flies, Olives in particular, may be copied quite well using only three patterns, weighted or unweighted. Gold-Ribbed Hare's Ear is good, but better, I think, with short light brown hen or partridge back hackles for legs and tails. Try Pheasant Tail with short legs and tails of brown partridge. Lastly. Olive Nymph -- try Greenwell's body, and make short tails and legs using olive dyed grey partridge, or olive hen hackle tail and legs. On all three, try tying in wing cases for a more imitative appearance. Use wing case to split and separate the leg hackles. For wing-cases, I use darkish primary wing feathers from heron, goose or dark cock pheasant centre tails. There is a very good reason for my recommending these, as with nymphs, as they near maturity, the wing pads become a very noticeable feature, and they can be quite dark. They might just be a trigger point for the fish, so it doesn't hurt to make them look a little more prominent. Also, my reason for favouring partridge hackles is that quite a few species of nymph have speckled legs, both Olives and Stone-clingers --- Baetis and most of the Heptagenidae.
    I haven't checked, but I'm sure you will find a Step By Step tying of such nymphs on the Forum. They are simple, but very effective on their own, fished above a shrimp or under a Klink. Cheers and happy fly watching and fly tying. TerryC

    PS If any of the foregoing is misleading or confusing in any way, you know where I am. And I always invite constructive criticism. That helps me and you, if and when I reply.
    Last edited by guest3; 05-12-2009 at 10:53 PM. Reason: Additional advice

  3. #3

    Default

    Hi Terry,

    Looks as though we've got our "Entomology Section"

    That's a fantastic seasonal list you've compiled for us! Thanks TC,

    We're having trouble in this area, the trout are taking midges in the surface water, thus making the evening fishing unproductive at the moment!

    Any ideas on representing a midge? some guys are using double dries when the light is fading, a large one as a sight indicator; and a very tiny fly behind!

    HELP!

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    England.
    Posts
    19,386

    Default

    Hi Mostyn, have you tried spent spinners ? the ones I tie sit right in the surface film and you can still see the white wings.
    Seems to work for me when the trout are being awkward, which is most of the time.
    In order to think like a fish you need to drink like one. Hidden Content

  5. #5

    Default

    Hi Steven,

    All the conventional patterns have been tried down to size 28,+ !!
    It happens when the days are hot and the evenings are quite warm until well after dark, they are not taking the fly on the water, they're feeding on midges in or just below the surface water! I managed one fish the last time I fished in the evening, but it was hard going! Two other forumites; who are excellent and accomplished fly anglers, fished last evening on the Usk, and drew a blank! A very rare occurrence for these guys. they tried almost everything down to a size 28, and caught nothing, although the fish were rising all around! Do know of any tiny midge patterns?

    Cheers Mr, T

    Mostyn

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    North Pennines
    Posts
    2,388

    Default

    Hi', Mostyn, and thank-you. I have loads of 35mm slides of most of the upwinged flies found in the county; but making digital images of them is pretty prohibitively costly, I believe. It would be helpful if I could add them to the series; but as they are all still found somewhere in the UK, amongst us all, after agreed identification on new or recent images submitted, we should manage to
    compile an illustrated list of flies found by members during the fishing season. It is only difficult after the insect explosion takes off in May and June.
    We have already seen some acccepatable shots of the most important upwinged species, LDO, Medium Olive, Mayfly, BWO, Pale Watery, Iron Blue Dun, Pond Olive, Small Spurwing, March Brown (important in a few areas only), Large Brook Dun, False March Brown, Olive Upright and so on. Some of these, plus Large Green Dun e.g., are beautiful flies but not much good to the fly fisher. Also, most fly dressers in the past have ignored the male spinners, which Richard W classes quite rightly as spider bait. However, people will probably still want to see them, for the sake of interest. We' ll just have to see what develops. Cheers, Terry
    PS I have to say also that some modern cameras produce better results more quickly than the old 35mm SLRs.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    North Pennines
    Posts
    2,388

    Default

    Hi', again Mostyn. I might be able to help here. I was talking to a member of the England Junior squad today and he had been having difficulty with small wild brownies while fishing dry flies. He had success in the morning, but in the afternoon they wouldn't look at his flies on the surface, so he fished his dry flies drowned, and was back in business. Steven's suggestion gets you in the surface, where spents can be very effective and still visible, which helps. Declan's gets you just under. Fishing just a few inches under the surface can make quite a big difference. A long time ago I occasionally tied up Ginger and Purple dry flies, size 14 or 16, for the partner of my old salmon fishing mate in Sykes' tackle shop here in Penrith. They were very effective in a clearing water, but fished even better when allowed to drown. Now there's a thing!! It might not work; but it must be worth a try. Let us know if it makes life easier.
    I must add that Declan was fishing in daylight, his drowned flies woud not be easy to fish in a poor light, as you would have to be able to see a take to be in with a good chance of a hook-up. Terry

  8. #8

    Default

    Thanks Terry,

    All information gratefully received! I'll give the drown flies a try; and maybe when the light is fading, put a small tiny fly behind a large dry, letting the small fly sink, using the large fly as an indicator!

    Not out in the evening until next week, will give it a try if things get awkward in the catching dept then!

    Cheers Terry.

    Mostyn

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    County Durham
    Posts
    2,152

    Default

    Hi Terry

    Nice set of flies.
    I use a similar set of variations on the Greenwell’s for the olives.
    Just by changing the thread body colour.

    Thanks for sharing

    Gary

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    North Pennines
    Posts
    2,388

    Default

    Hi', Gary, sorry I missed your post, just noticed the addition to the thread. I got into tying my own patterns for the olives through having to wait ages for the local tackle shop to provide me with a Greenwell's Glory cock neck. I tied a batch of flies with bicolour hackles, while waiting, and they looked far more like the real thing than the original GG. So, I proceeded to tie the three different shades of body and hackle. Mrtrout likes the Dark Eden Olive, but they all took trout regularly for a couple of mates and I when we fished together in the 1960s,70s and 80s. The medium olive pattern worked well when there was a good procession of BWO duns on the water -- something I haven't seen since the mid-1990s -- only a poor copy of what we used to see. A bonus noticed yesterday, while having a throw at the salmon with the fly, was a couple of duns, plus the odd Large Dark Olive. I did think, earlier this year, that we were going to see a resurgence of upwings; but I have been disappointed. A few more Iron Blues, and definitely more Olive Uprights, Large Brook Duns and Mayflies, but they didn't compensate for the mediocre hatches of the more common species. Thank Heaven for little terrestrials.
    Cheers, TerryC

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •