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  1. #41

    Default Re: Dropper knots fluorocarbon

    Depends very much where you place real world fly fishing ?On the reservoirs attention to detail can make a significant difference.Fluorocarbon has a number of advantages and benefits in certain situations otherwise top-level reservoir fly fishers/professionals would not be fishing with it.
    I know half a dozen professional salmon anglers (guides) and they use nothing but Maxima. But I think the leader is far less important at high breaking strains and fast running water.

    The only other professional angler I know fishes rivers and lakes (not stocked) and uses maxima for both.

    I think I'd only now turn to fluo in flat calms with tiny flies. But I'd worry about it.

    Professional anglers are not imune to marketing and fashions.....

  2. #42
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    Default Re: Dropper knots fluorocarbon

    Quote Originally Posted by tangled View Post
    You need to show that Stokes Law applies to fishing and fishing circumstances. I'd be very interested in seeing that.

    My take on it is that the fish ignore all sorts of problems that we present them with, not least the fact that even the very best immitation of a fly has a bloody great piece of bent wire sticking out of its backside.

    I'm pretty certain too that fish see the leader no matter how thin and no matter what material it's made of but occasionally ignore it.

    If line material matters, it doesn't seem to matter very much - certainly not enough for me to notice. And not enough to offset my nervousness in using fluorocarbon again.



    But do the tiny differences matter in real world fishing?
    I don't think the small differences in density between monofilaments makes any significant difference in real world fishing. Stokes Law is simply an empirical approach, to the viscous drag on a sphere settling through a fluid. More advanced fluid dynamics would more adequately deal with the Profile Drag (combination of Form Drag and Skin Friction) associated with irregular shapes such as fishing flies though I seriously doubt anyone has every done a calculation for flies! However, we all make use of the concept every time we put a hackle on a fly to slow its sink rate, something I would argue makes a much greater difference to sink rate than monofilament density.

  3. #43
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    Default Re: Dropper knots fluorocarbon

    Quote Originally Posted by olive_dabbler View Post
    I don't think the small differences in density between monofilaments makes any significant difference in real world fishing. Stokes Law is simply an empirical approach, to the viscous drag on a sphere settling through a fluid. More advanced fluid dynamics would more adequately deal with the Profile Drag (combination of Form Drag and Skin Friction) associated with irregular shapes such as fishing flies though I seriously doubt anyone has every done a calculation for flies! However, we all make use of the concept every time we put a hackle on a fly to slow its sink rate, something I would argue makes a much greater difference to sink rate than monofilament density.
    Despite the laws of physics the ''proof is in the pudding'' as they say.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by tangled View Post
    I know half a dozen professional salmon anglers (guides) and they use nothing but Maxima. But I think the leader is far less important at high breaking strains and fast running water.

    The only other professional angler I know fishes rivers and lakes (not stocked) and uses maxima for both.

    I think I'd only now turn to fluo in flat calms with tiny flies. But I'd worry about it.

    Professional anglers are not imune to marketing and fashions.....
    Think straying from the issue

  4. #44

    Default Re: Dropper knots fluorocarbon

    Quote Originally Posted by JCP View Post
    Think straying from the issue
    Not me, I was responding to this

    Fluorocarbon has a number of advantages and benefits in certain situations otherwise top-level reservoir fly fishers/professionals would not be fishing with it.

  5. #45
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    Default Re: Dropper knots fluorocarbon

    Just what are the advantages of fluorocarbon - for us lesser anglers?
    Last edited by Tommy Ruffe; 16-04-2018 at 07:11 PM.
    There's more B.S. in fly fishing than there is in a Kansas feedlot - Lefty Kreh

  6. #46
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    Default Re: Dropper knots fluorocarbon

    Quote Originally Posted by JCP View Post
    Despite the laws of physics the ''proof is in the pudding'' as they say.
    The Laws of Physics are the result of a lot of experimental puddings.

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    Default Re: Dropper knots fluorocarbon

    As others have mentioned '' the proof is in the pudding '' today I caught 20 trout in 2 hours on the dry fly , even better kept the same dry fly on for the short dry fly session . Was using Grand Max in a diameter of 0.10 , or 2.4 breaking strain .

    Love the stuff , I let you know if I can better this over the next few weeks .

  8. #48
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    Default Re: Dropper knots fluorocarbon

    Quote Originally Posted by Tommy Ruffe View Post
    Just what are the advantages of fluorocarbon - for us lesser anglers?
    The only significant ones in my book are its abrasion and UV resistance and the fact that it absorbs water much less than nylon copolymers. A fluorocarbon coated nylon copolymer such as Asso Double Strength has those same characteristics. This guy does a somewhat crude experiment on visibility and sink rate but, not surprisingly, his copper john is the determinant in sink rate. (Ignore the fact that he's actually comparing a fluorocarbon with a PTFE coated nylon, not a straight nylon copolymer monofilament, that doesn't affect its density though will affect its refractive index!).

    Last edited by olive_dabbler; 16-04-2018 at 07:37 PM.

  9. #49
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    Default Re: Dropper knots fluorocarbon

    Quote Originally Posted by JCP View Post
    Confusion arises I feel where posters do not really explain clearly the circumstances when these breakages happen to help analyse the cause.Fluorcarbon would have been dead and buried long ago if it was an inferior product.
    Best JP
    Very true. How many are using the upward facing tag for the dropper fly, for example? How many get broken from time to time by close in fish taking hard which they do from time to time? It is very difficult to avoid a break under those circumstances.

    Any leader material, and any knot will break under the right circumstances, and the most common factor in knot failure is operator error. Cold, wet fingers, windy conditions, fish rising all over the place, blinding hot day and sweat running into the eyes, bad temper because we've just had another tangle plus any other set of circumstances anyone cares to mention can and do contribute.

    Also, lots of chat about sink rates and the assumption that fluoro sinks at xx times faster than nylon. How do we know that under fishing conditions? Is someone sitting down there at 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, and 10' with a stopwatch making comparisons?

  10. #50
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    Default Re: Dropper knots fluorocarbon

    Quote Originally Posted by tangled View Post
    Not me, I was responding to this
    I too have been guilty of being drawn into straying from the issue.(knots in Fuorocarbon) My sincere apologies.

    JP

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