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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Essex
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    37

    Default Two turn surgeons knot failing

    I am having problems with my 2 turn surgeon/water knots failing. I use a Hardy 6lb tapered leader and then a 18inch length of .014 Stroft then a 36 inch length of .01 Stroft.
    The knot usually breaks leaving it on the up rod end if you follow me. I am careful to tie carefully and use plenty of spit to lubricate. All the nylon is fresh this year.
    Is the problem just me or is it to do with the relative diameters of the twang?
    Chiron

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Fife
    Posts
    7,293

    Default Re: Two turn surgeons knot failing

    Quote Originally Posted by chiron View Post
    I am having problems with my 2 turn surgeon/water knots failing. I use a Hardy 6lb tapered leader and then a 18inch length of .014 Stroft then a 36 inch length of .01 Stroft.
    The knot usually breaks leaving it on the up rod end if you follow me. I am careful to tie carefully and use plenty of spit to lubricate. All the nylon is fresh this year.
    Is the problem just me or is it to do with the relative diameters of the twang?
    Chiron
    Couple suggestions for you to try...if you want to keep using the water knot I would add another turn.Better still try the figure eight knot... Make sure you pull your knots together dead slow and evenly.Forget the spit.
    Last edited by Wee Jimmy; 28-09-2018 at 07:33 AM.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    Moray, Scotland
    Posts
    1,221

    Default Re: Two turn surgeons knot failing

    I'd change to the figure of eight knot.
    You could always test them back to back with a pull test.

    I also use a tippet ring on the end of the tapered leader, never need to shorten it again, just keep changing the tippet.
    Only use good quality rings though. Never had a problem with Riverge.
    Only when the last tree has been cut down, the last fish caught and the last river poisoned, will we realise, we cannot eat money.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Two turn surgeons knot failing

    Quote Originally Posted by Wee Jimmy View Post
    Couple suggestions for you to try...if you want to keep using the water knot I would another turn.Better still try the figure eight knot... Make sure you pull your knots together dead slow and evenly.Forget the spit.
    I do three or four turns on a surgeons knot.
    I haven't tried the figure of eight knot for fishing, but will have to give it a go. It was the first knot my granddad taught me.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Essex
    Posts
    37

    Default Re: Two turn surgeons knot failing

    I was told by an eminent fishing guide that more than two turns weakens the sugeons knot.What I cannot understand is that when I was with him last year he tied on the tippet and the knot was perfect and didn’t give me any trouble. Is the answer more spit and slower tighten?
    I do use tippet rings and get on ok with them but find them really fiddly.
    Thanks for your suggestions. I will give the figure of eight a go.
    Chiron

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Scotland
    Posts
    2,735

    Default Re: Two turn surgeons knot failing

    I had used a uni/grinner for years hassle free, i tried the water knot and lost a fish fly and dropper the same week?
    A grinner isn't the quickest to tie but it is reliable.
    Al

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Wiltshire
    Posts
    7,356

    Default Re: Two turn surgeons knot failing

    I'm one more for the Fig 8 knot. I like things to be simple, straightforward, easy to tie and easy to change and the Fig 8 ticks all those as well as being as reliable as any and a lot better than a fair few.

    I'm not going to say I've been using it for Xty five years and never had a fail because that would be lying. All knots will fail at some time for a variety of reasons. All we can do is to minimise the number of failures.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Essex
    Posts
    37

    Default Re: Two turn surgeons knot failing

    I use a grinner to to tie fly on and for tippet rings as Stroft pigtails with a blood knot.
    Need to practice the figure of eight.The surgeons is quick and easy to tie in the half light and does not use to much nylon.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Wiltshire
    Posts
    7,356

    Default Re: Two turn surgeons knot failing

    Quote Originally Posted by chiron View Post
    I use a grinner to to tie fly on and for tippet rings as Stroft pigtails with a blood knot.
    Need to practice the figure of eight.The surgeons is quick and easy to tie in the half light and does not use to much nylon.
    Having used the 3 turn surgeon's aka 3 turn water knot for several years before switching to the Fig 8 I have to say that the latter is both quicker and easier to tie.

    Form a loop with both strands same as surgeons. Stick your finger through the loop and twist once, then push your thumb through the loop to join the finger, pick up both strands of line and pull them through the loop. Tighten gently after moistening. Use the downward strand for droppers as usual. Should take less than 30 seconds start to finish.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Two turn surgeons knot failing

    Whilst nt really being an advocate, for "plenty of spit" I do slightly "lube" my knots, but perhaps more importantly I was told many years ago by a very experienced angler to place the nearly completed knot under your tongue for a few seconds to warm the material up, so that it will soften a bit & pull up tighter.

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