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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
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    West Sussex
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    Default DEFRA consultation on shooting cormorants needs YOU!

    Details on a survey that we should all complete to reduce the highly negative impact of non-native fish eating birds like goosander and European cormorants can be found here: New online effort to shoot more cormorants - details and link

    An example answer from me if it helps:
    There are far more cormorants inland than were ever present when I was a child. As migratory and wild fish numbers drop one key reason has to be the presence of fish eating birds that are decimating the fry. This has been proven when the stomach contents of birds culled have been shown to be full of juvenile salmon, sea trout and trout. Despite that, presumably because birds are seen while fish are hidden under water that fact is ignored. If something is not done many rivers will soon be devoid of the migratory fish that have been running the rivers for centuries. Records clearly show a significant increase in inland colonies that are largely of non-native continental sub-species from Europe (P. c. sinensis) unlike our native cormorants which largely nest on the coast. This invasion is no less destructive than plants such as Himalayan Balsam or giant hogweed and yet effective control is prevented.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Sussex
    Posts
    594

    Default Re: DEFRA consultation on shooting cormorants needs YOU!

    Your representations must be evidence based, anecdotes etc. will probably be ignored. Search the Internet for scientific papers, surveys and data to support your arguments.
    https://sussex-trout-fishing.com/

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Devon
    Posts
    2,187

    Default Re: DEFRA consultation on shooting cormorants needs YOU!

    They’ll be completely ignored unless they are evidence based, same holds true with comparing to an introduced species from Asia to a naturally mobile and colonising species from Europe... Most of England is far closer to France than Scotland, the channel is barely a ditch.

  4. #4

    Default Re: DEFRA consultation on shooting cormorants needs YOU!

    Quote Originally Posted by iainmortimer View Post
    ... non-native fish eating birds like goosander and European cormorants...
    How can you define non-native birds? Birds have wings and can choose where they fly to. Are ospreys non-native because they fly to the UK from Africa? Goosanders first bred in the UK in 1871. That is nearly 150 years ago. European cormorants... well, geographically at least, the British Isles are part of Europe and always will be. If you want to make a case for shooting fish-eating birds, then go ahead and make a case, but don't try to do it by implying they are species artificially introduced by man, when they are not.

    Col
    Please note that any views expressed in this post may be those of the
    originator and do not necessarily reflect those of the reader.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
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    London
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    Default Re: DEFRA consultation on shooting cormorants needs YOU!

    I've reviewed the published material on cormorants and fisheries, now published on my blog for those interested.

    The upshot is that there is not a great deal of scientific evidence on cormorant impacts, especially on natural waters. Some for stocked fisheries.

    I think there's little chance of getting a general licence to cull, and even if there were, it would make little difference.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Scotland
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    3,831

    Default Re: DEFRA consultation on shooting cormorants needs YOU!

    DEFRA consultation on shooting cormorants needs YOU!-cormorants-dinner-ed-1-jpg
    49 trout and salmon smolts between 2 cormorants!

    DEFRA consultation on shooting cormorants needs YOU!-fb_img_1556262400545-jpg
    Yeh sure there's little evidence.
    Put that in your blog that you consistently haver on about!
    Last edited by speytime; 19-11-2019 at 04:23 PM.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
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    London
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    Default Re: DEFRA consultation on shooting cormorants needs YOU!

    Quote Originally Posted by speytime View Post
    DEFRA consultation on shooting cormorants needs YOU!-cormorants-dinner-ed-1-jpg
    49 trout and salmon smolts between 2 cormorants!

    DEFRA consultation on shooting cormorants needs YOU!-fb_img_1556262400545-jpg
    Yeh sure there's little evidence.
    Put that in your blog that you consistently haver on about!
    Have you read it? No. Read it and the INTERCAFE report and you'll have a better understanding. On the other hand you could just ignore everything and carry on believing what you like. Everyone knows cormorants eat fish. Pictures like that don't tell us anything more.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    South of England
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    Default Re: DEFRA consultation on shooting cormorants needs YOU!

    When I first came south to Southampton in 1974, seeing a Cormorant on Southampton Water was quite rare, at best you might spot one or two in a day, usually solitary birds drying out on a buoy or mooring post feeding.
    Now they are commonplace, indeed if you walk along the path at Riverside Park, a free stretch of the River Itchen bequeathed by Lord Swaythling, at very first light, there will be a Cormorant working every two hundred metres or so. If you go to the old bridge over the River Test, at Redbridge, in that early dawn you will see gangs of Cormorants heading up the Test valley. Clearly, way back then was at a sustainable population level, demonstrably, and nowadays we clearly have a surfeit: the volume of fish stocks in the Test or Itchen catchments has declined, while the Cormorants have prospered, this is not Ying and Yang but an imbalance. Less people shoot nowadays, and there are far fewer gamekeepers as well. This is not anecdotal, it is a matter of fact, DEFRA should realise there is a veritable army of people who like me would be prepared to swear an affidavit or statement, and whose voices must be taken into consideration. The Cormorant is not a selective predator, and in the higher numbers we nowadays see it is a threat to the ecology, and to fisheries.
    Last edited by vital; 23-11-2019 at 06:44 PM.
    <")))><

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Highlands
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    Default Re: DEFRA consultation on shooting cormorants needs YOU!

    cormorants are fish eaters, we have already established that,when we destroy the inshore stocks , the birds have to have some where to feed, they cant alter their diet,so they look for fish, what else are they supposed to do? perhaps we should just kill every thing that eats fish?,we are fishing for pleasure/fun, the birds are fishing to survive, we have to accept that or we will promote more animal rights groups, the normal fishing habit of these birds has been disrupted by us, we should learn to accept this,we are responsible for more extinctions than any thing else on this planet, I, for one , do not want to be a party to any more, easker1

  10. #10

    Default Re: DEFRA consultation on shooting cormorants needs YOU!

    Quote Originally Posted by vital View Post
    Clearly, way back then was at a sustainable population level, demonstrably, and nowadays we clearly have a surfeit.
    Incorrect. We do not have a surfeit. We have the number that the total fish stocks available to them will support. That is how nature works. If the total fish stocks available to them fall, then their numbers will fall naturally.


    Quote Originally Posted by vital View Post
    ... the volume of fish stocks in the Test or Itchen catchments has declined, while the Cormorants have prospered...
    Then the ones you are seeing are not totally dependent on the fish stocks in the Test or Itchen catchments, but are also getting fish from other sources.

    Quote Originally Posted by vital View Post
    ... this is not Ying and Yang but an imbalance...
    ... only from your biased perspective. Nature has it balanced over a long-term cycle, where predator numbers follow prey numbers up and down in a natural procession.

    Quote Originally Posted by vital View Post
    Less people shoot nowadays...
    Fewer people are legally able to go about shooting every cormorant they are able to... which is why cormorant numbers are back up to a more natural number... in balance with their food source... which we supplement with stocked fish... helping their numbers even more...

    Quote Originally Posted by vital View Post
    The Cormorant is not a selective predator, and in the higher numbers we nowadays see it is a threat to the ecology, and to fisheries.
    It is what it is - a fish-eating bird - which eats the fish you want to catch, putting it into conflict with you... and me and thousands of other people. But it is not some kind of imbalancer of nature or any threat to 'ecology'. (Ecology is the study of ecosystems.)

    And I say this as a member of a club that has a big problem with cormorants eating the fish we stock into our water.

    Col
    Please note that any views expressed in this post may be those of the
    originator and do not necessarily reflect those of the reader.

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