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  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Market Harborough
    Posts
    527

    Default cdc/elk questions

    I was fishing a couple of weeks ago on my local river, and decided to try one of these "new fangled" (at least to me anyway) CDC and Elk tied by Ben Wynde for me, and my God, it was a great fly. Had bites straight away and caught a lovely wee chub on it. Two days ago, I took my Dad to a local stillwater, (his first ever time fly fishing), and despite everyone catching on black buzzers, there were enough fish rising for me to try a dry. Lo and behold, Bens CDC and Elk went on the 9ft rod, and one of Scotflies wee CDC and Elk went on my 7ft rod.
    Bloody marvelous. Caught on both. (great fun seeing the trout come up and suck down the fly, and great sport on the 7ft 4wt).
    So I want to tie some.
    Done some research and found a good step by step guide
    http://www.danica.com/FLYTIER/steps/cdcelk/cdcelk.htm
    but this says I need a hair stacker. (was this fly invented by our very own Mr Weilenmann ?)
    I have to go to my local tackle shop to pick up some CDC and elk anyway so do I need to buy one of these ??

    Also I noted when fishing these that after a while the CDC became waterlogged and no matter how hard I blew on it, I couldn't really resuscitate it. I put it on my fly patch to dry and used another. Also fish slime seemed to drown it. Any advice?
    Sorry if these questions have been asked before.
    cheers
    Dom

  2. #2

    Default

    Hi Dom,

    A hair stacker makes the whole process much easier. Additionally you should get a flea/nit comb with which to brush out the underhair in the deer.

    With regard to 'cleaning' CDC I find a old, clean handkerchief useful to dry the fly. There is also a brush on dessicant 'Frogs Fanny'(!) that is useful, especially if used after the hanky treatment.

    Hope your Dad enjoyed himself - is he hooked?

    Cheers,

    Ben

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Market Harborough
    Posts
    527

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ben wynde
    Hi Dom,

    A hair stacker makes the whole process much easier. Additionally you should get a flea/nit comb with which to brush out the underhair in the deer.

    With regard to 'cleaning' CDC I find a old, clean handkerchief useful to dry the fly. There is also a brush on dessicant 'Frogs Fanny'(!) that is useful, especially if used after the hanky treatment.

    Hope your Dad enjoyed himself - is he hooked?

    Cheers,

    Ben
    Cheers for the info Ben.
    Next question is what size hair stacker. Ebay has a set of three quite cheap. (I am assuming here that cheap ones are not really that bad ??)

    My Dad did enjoy it, however his casting was obviously not great which he found frustrating, (he kept bending his wrist, and bringing the rod far too back) and not being a great caster myself, could obviously not be a great teacher, but he took a trout home and ate it. I don't think it will be his new
    hobby however, but he did enjoy himself.
    It is however the first time I have been to Albury for a year or so, and I found it souless and sterile. It scrathed an itch, and the two trout I caught fought quite well, and it is always fun catching on a dry, however I think that I definatley prefer the changing environment of a river.

    I have just sent an email to someone to find out where the Barbel are on the Wey, and also to find out if I can go after Carp on their stillwaters. Should be fun if not challenging.
    Cheers
    Dom

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    In Exile in Keighley (its getting worse) W. Yo........No I just can't bring myself to write it!
    Posts
    411

    Default

    The issue with fish slime is easily treated with a drop of Petitjean CdC oil before you fish the fly.

    I stack the hair in my fingers but a hair stacker will be a lot easier for you. Get a comb from your local chemists. It is only about 1 - 2 If you can screw it to the edge of your tying table with the tine's pointing up. Then you can cut and comb the under fur out without changing your grip (this isn't my idea I got it from Chris Helm. I don't think there is anyone who knows more about deer hair tying.)

    If you decide to get hair stackers then get a small one for flies like Hans' CdC and Elk and if you need a bigger one get the biggest you can find! The sizes in between are not essential if you can't do it in the little one the big one will do it.

    One thing you could use is a cleaned out (used) cartridge case. Saw off the waisted section and clean out (Coca Cola overnight) then drop your hair in,after combing it out, and give it a couple of taps.

    I have heard of someone returning deer hair because the tips where not level. Try as the shop owner might this guy couldn't understand that a natural material would never be even.

    Cheers,
    Alan.

  5. #5

    Default

    Dom,

    I was fishing a couple of weeks ago on my local river, and decided to try one of these "new fangled" (at least to me anyway) CDC and Elk tied by Ben Wynde for me, and my God, it was a great fly.
    Good to hear the wee fly produced for your dad, and yourself. May many more fish follow.

    So I want to tie some.
    Good start!

    Done some research and found a good step by step guide
    http://www.danica.com/FLYTIER/steps/cdcelk/cdcelk.htm
    Did you also check out the video clip I did on tying the pattern? The link to the (Windows Media Video format) on this url:
    http://www.danica.com/flytier/hweilenmann/cdcelk.htm

    but this says I need a hair stacker. (was this fly invented by our very own Mr Weilenmann ?)
    I have to go to my local tackle shop to pick up some CDC and elk anyway so do I need to buy one of these ??
    While the CDC&Elk name might suggest otherwise, the pattern actually calls for deer hair. (Don't ask... it is a long story )

    Also I noted when fishing these that after a while the CDC became waterlogged and no matter how hard I blew on it, I couldn't really resuscitate it. I put it on my fly patch to dry and used another. Also fish slime seemed to drown it. Any advice?
    The function of the CDC on this fly is not to keep it afloat. It is there to provide the mobility, the "illusion of life". I combined the CDC with naturally buoyant deer hair to keep it on the surface. You can improve the floatability of teh pattern by applying some paste floatant to the deer hair wing/head only.

    When the CDC slimes up (always a good sign, no? ) simply continue to do what you have done. Rinse the fly well, dry it (amadou patch works magic, but a towel or shirt slip will do also), and the deer hair should keep it on top again.

    Also, when you find it is riding lower than you would like, make your first false cast a 'snap' cast, to whip excess moisture out of the fly.

    Frog's Fanny has been mentioned in a previous post, but personally I am not too keen on using a powder desicant such at FF on the CDC&Elk. It tends to make the CDC barbs act like fluff balls. The pattern is designed to ride in the film like this:



    Cheers,
    Hans W
    Last edited by Hans Weilenmann; 13-07-2006 at 10:54 AM.

  6. #6

    Default

    Hi Folks,

    A great fly this, I managed to take all my fish to this, last weekend on the Rivers Final on the Dart, unfortunately not enough for me to make a real impact but I think that was more down to me than the fly. My controller who was a local was impressed enough with it that when I finish the Comp I asked to help imself to my fly box this is the thing he took and asked me how to dress it.
    I've also used it in a size 12 to hang a bead head on a NZ dropper from and it does this job really well.
    It's my ultimate dry fly at the moment as it seems to have all the attributes I require, easy to tie, great bouyancy, and the trout love 'em.

    Cheers

    Mick Pogson
    Last edited by MickeyP Coolstreams; 13-07-2006 at 02:01 PM.
    "There's only one way of life, and that's your own, that's your own, that's your own" The Levellers.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    4

    Cool

    CDC&Elk is a great fly. On my latest trip to Glomma Norway
    i was began to run aut of Elk hair caddis. I looked in the box
    and saw 1 litle CDC&Elk.Remember when Hans gawe it to my,
    more than 1 year ago at the Danish fly fair.I also got the story
    Why the name and material was not the same. Something
    Abaut the USA But i put this fly on,and hooked some nice Grayling.
    This is a fly i hawe to make a lot of. Thanks Hans,andYour Danica site is Great.
    Tcr

  8. #8
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Market Harborough
    Posts
    527

    Default

    Thanks for this Hans.
    Straight from the horses mouth.


    Cheers
    Dom

    EDIT
    Thanks for all the advice.
    Stopped on my way home at my friendly tackle dealer.
    Bought some hooks, some deer hair, some CDC and brown thread, and have just tied my first two CDC/ELK. My first ever dry files tied by me. The video helped a lot Hans.
    Cheers
    dom
    Last edited by dom; 13-07-2006 at 05:09 PM.

  9. #9

    Default Deer Hair

    Hans,

    Dare I ask what kind of deer hair? Chris Helm (USA) has taught me the importance of always using the 'right' (deer) hair for a given application. As you know, though, there are many more types/species/attributes of deer hair than Cow, Bull, and Yearling Elk.

    Also, was the CDC & Elk Caddis so-named because of its Elk Hair Caddis profile (the wing & Troth's distinctive head of hair on the fly)? Likewise, I find that the X-Caddis, an emerger pattern, rides lower in the film when tied with "short, coarse" early season Whitetail deer hair.

    Thanks,
    Kevin

  10. #10

    Default

    Kevin,

    Dare I ask what kind of deer hair? Chris Helm (USA) has taught me the importance of always using the 'right' (deer) hair for a given application. As you know, though, there are many more types/species/attributes of deer hair than Cow, Bull, and Yearling Elk.
    The hair I use is early season Mule deer. As on every deer, the hair characteristics change from one part of the pelt to the other. The hair best suited for the CDC&Elk is located on either side of the spine of the deer's rump. Look for straight hair, perhaps 3/4-1" in length. The 'early season' part will ensure that little underhair is present, making stacking the hair easier. The taper is pretty steep, and one indicator of quality hair is the slight crinkle in the lower half of the hair. You can see pictures of a prime patch of hair below. Every snip mark translates to a CDC&Elk





    Also, was the CDC & Elk Caddis so-named because of its Elk Hair Caddis profile (the wing & Troth's distinctive head of hair on the fly)?
    Partly correct. The short version is that when I donated some flies to the Catskills flyfishing museum (while on a visit there) I was presented with a Release Form, relinquishing rights to the sample I had to do some quick thinking on the hoof. I wanted to retain the link to the inspiration (Al Troth's EHC) but also indicate the other key component. The fact that the EHC uses elk hair, while the CDC&Elk has a deer hair wing, ah well... too late to change the name now. It kinda stuck, in a goofy way. The head on the CDC&Elk, btw, differs a fair bit from Al's EHC design where the size of the head has shrunk and shrunk over the years to its present form seen below in an Al Troth tied&submitted sample:



    Cheers,
    Hans W

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