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Thread: Cost of rods

  1. #1501
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
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    Hornchurch outer London
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    1,040

    Default Re: Cost of rods

    I don't remember any posts from rod makers or any sort of definitive answer. And the big price gap is still there.

    Trout rods for the toffs hike the price. Coarse rods for the riff raff sell at proper price as they are not stupid.

  2. #1502

    Default Re: Cost of rods

    Quote Originally Posted by linkledger View Post
    I don't remember any posts from rod makers or any sort of definitive answer. And the big price gap is still there.
    You say that every time you're answered.

    Trout rods for the toffs hike the price. Coarse rods for the riff raff sell at proper price as they are not stupid.
    So you've answered your own question. It's marketing.

    There is also probably a small cost difference in that fly rods have to be light and are in action most of the time they're used - they take more strain for longer with less material so they need a bit more finesse in manufacture. I would also guess that course fishing rods sell in higher quantities so may achieve better scale costs, but I have no numbers to show you.

    But the main difference is simply marketing and their appeal to brand values.

  3. #1503

    Default Re: Cost of rods

    Quote Originally Posted by tangled View Post

    But the main difference is simply marketing and their appeal to brand values.
    ...based on only written information, and having never tried one

  4. #1504

    Default Re: Cost of rods

    Quote Originally Posted by ohanzee View Post
    ...based on only written information, and having never tried one
    Based on the evidence provided by those that make them (read Steve's blog), discussions with a buyer for Hardy's, multiple rod tests over several years and my own use of several 'quality' brands.

    But as always, if you can bring some objective evidence here, it's always happily received.

  5. #1505

    Default Re: Cost of rods

    Quote Originally Posted by tangled View Post
    Based on the evidence provided by those that make them (read Steve's blog), discussions with a buyer for Hardy's, multiple rod tests over several years and my own use of several 'quality' brands.

    But as always, if you can bring some objective evidence here, it's always happily received.
    I gave examples of rods that were comprehensively the best in their time, Hardy Angel, Sage xp, and more recently the Sage One, looking at these retrospectively shows us more clearly than the current, and they were the best rods of their era's, they were also the most expensive.

    Are you saying that we have reached a point where technology has topped out and cheaper rods are now manufactured to the same design and quality spec as the highest price?

    I'd be wary of this, it would take 2 mins to demonstrate that within any given brand range that their mid range struggles against their top, would you then suggest that they make inferior rods in the mid range just to keep the illusion going?
    Last edited by ohanzee; 11-08-2018 at 12:06 PM.

  6. #1506

    Default Re: Cost of rods

    Quote Originally Posted by ohanzee View Post
    I gave examples of rods that were comprehensively the best in their time, Hardy Angel, Sage xp, and more recently the Sage One, looking at these retrospectively shows us more clearly than the current, and they were the best rods of their era's, they were also the most expensive.
    Did you? I must have missed that. But never mind, let's suppose you're correct, that say, the Sage 1 was objectively the best rod made. The tests also will have shown that for a fraction of the cost - let's say 5 times cheaper but often 10 - you'll get one that performs almost as well. And by almost I mean so close that the average angler could not tell the difference.

    But even more importantly, unless that expensive rod has exactly the right line on it, it'll be as average as any other. A well balanced Shakey will beat an out of balance anything any day of the week.

    Are you saying that we have reached a point where technology has topped out and cheaper rods are now manufactured to the same design and quality spec as the highest price?
    Yes, I'm saying a bit of that, plus the fact that few 'manufacturers' now actually manufacture, they buy blanks to order from Far East volume manufacturers and top and tail with mainly cosmetic hardware.

    I'd be wary of this, it would take 2 mins to demonstrate that within any given brand range that their mid range struggles against their top, would you then suggest that they make inferior rods in the mid range just to keep the illusion going?
    If you take Pure Fishing inc, they own Shakespeare, Greys and Hardy's. That's the perfect brand positioning of low, mid and high. The price difference between those brands is enormous maybe a factor of 20? But the cost difference will be marginal - a few quid at most.

    The main price difference between the rods is brand and marketing. There is little performance difference at all and a modicum of cosmetics. It's easy for a manufacturer to build a rod of the same quality as a top end rod and price it at at half or a quarter of the price but why would they ever do that?

    Much of this is the Gucci handbag syndrome.

  7. #1507

    Default Re: Cost of rods

    Quote Originally Posted by tangled View Post
    Did you? I must have missed that. But never mind, let's suppose you're correct, that say, the Sage 1 was objectively the best rod made. The tests also will have shown that for a fraction of the cost - let's say 5 times cheaper but often 10 - you'll get one that performs almost as well. And by almost I mean so close that the average angler could not tell the difference.

    But even more importantly, unless that expensive rod has exactly the right line on it, it'll be as average as any other. A well balanced Shakey will beat an out of balance anything any day of the week.

    Yes, I'm saying a bit of that, plus the fact that few 'manufacturers' now actually manufacture, they buy blanks to order from Far East volume manufacturers and top and tail with mainly cosmetic hardware.

    If you take Pure Fishing inc, they own Shakespeare, Greys and Hardy's. That's the perfect brand positioning of low, mid and high. The price difference between those brands is enormous maybe a factor of 20? But the cost difference will be marginal - a few quid at most.

    The main price difference between the rods is brand and marketing. There is little performance difference at all and a modicum of cosmetics. It's easy for a manufacturer to build a rod of the same quality as a top end rod and price it at at half or a quarter of the price but why would they ever do that?

    Much of this is the Gucci handbag syndrome.
    You are stretching little bits of truth to fit your own ideas.

  8. #1508

    Default Re: Cost of rods

    Quote Originally Posted by ohanzee View Post
    You are stretching little bits of truth to fit your own ideas.
    My 300 Hardy's reel arrived this morning, it has 'Korea’ printed on it. I paid 120 for it, brand new with full guarantee from a leading retailer. They still have a margin even at that discount. Interesting huh? It's a nice reel.

  9. #1509

    Default Re: Cost of rods

    Quote Originally Posted by tangled View Post

    Interesting huh?
    Not really do they still make the model?

  10. #1510
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    Hampshire, UK
    Posts
    704

    Default Re: Cost of rods

    It's ALL marketing. A so-called 'high-end' end product exists to raise the image of the company's products and thus gradually induce the customers to accept higher prices for all of them. Sage is the classic example and Orvis is the latest one to follow, with the Helios 3. The Helios 2 was looking a bit down-market compared to the alternatives so the company was too.

    And as most of them follow the first one it soon benefits all the manufacturers.

    Take Honda. In the 1980's it produced a 40,000 sports motorbike. Only seven were sold in the UK (I actually saw one parked outside the local post office).
    Sure enough, in the next couple of years the top prices for similar sports motorbikes increased from about 7,000 to about 11,000 and even the 13,000 Ducati became 'acceptable' and sold well.

    Carbon fly rods? If the blanks for any of them cost more than about 20 to make, even in the USA, I would be very surprised. If I fall for it (which I have done in the past) it will be a top Winston. You have to be real 'discriminating' to own one of those in the UK as there are very few outlets. Much better than yer common 850 quid Sage, only the better-paid members of yer ignorant masses buy them

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