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Old 28-07-2017, 07:30 PM
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Default Canoe access Wales?

Can anyone update me on what's happening in regard canoe access in Wales? I'm sure there's a review coming up soon in the Welsh assembly regarding open access to all rivers!

Any links or info on organisations trying to stop the madness of open access also appreciated

Cheers JayP
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Old 28-07-2017, 07:44 PM
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Default Re: Canoe access Wales?

Jayp

Look here https://consultations.gov.wales/cons...,3DKHTK,VZM2,1

Harry
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Old 28-07-2017, 07:50 PM
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Default Re: Canoe access Wales?

JayP,

Arkle put this up in the "Ear to the Ground" section, The Real Threat to your Fishing!! - Gwent Angling Society
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Old 28-07-2017, 08:05 PM
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Default Re: Canoe access Wales?

Quote:
Originally Posted by taffy1 View Post
JayP,
H
Arkle put this up in the "Ear to the Ground" section, The Real Threat to your Fishing!! - Gwent Angling Society
Thanks guys I'll have a gander over the weekend.

I didn't see it in 'Ear to the Ground' maybe we need a sub-forum 'pen to paper' or 'fingers on the keyboard'
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Old 29-07-2017, 09:35 PM
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Default Re: Canoe access Wales?

Without people throwing all the toys out of the pram...

Can someone please EXPLAIN, not shout, what is wrong with canoe access? Or at least the canoe access that is proposed?

I can see benefits - I can see dangers too, but none that cannot be overcome.

For many years there have been perfect working arrangements where paddlers and anglers got on quite fine - what has changed? There isn't this animosity in Scotland - even on salmon beats that people pay 1000 a week per rod for - they have absolutely perfectly good relationships with paddlers. There is a MUTUAL RESPECT - why is this not present in Wales? There has to be a reason (s) but I don't know what they are and would like someone to inform me - POLITELY please, so I can be brought up to speed.

Thank you.
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Old 30-07-2017, 01:56 AM
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Default Re: Canoe access Wales?

February 2001 sticks in many farmers' minds.
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Old 30-07-2017, 05:01 AM
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Default Re: Canoe access Wales?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tailing Loop View Post

For many years there have been perfect working arrangements where paddlers and anglers got on quite fine - what has changed? There isn't this animosity in Scotland - even on salmon beats that people pay 1000 a week per rod for - they have absolutely perfectly good relationships with paddlers. There is a MUTUAL RESPECT - why is this not present in Wales? There has to be a reason (s) but I don't know what they are and would like someone to inform me - POLITELY please, so I can be brought up to speed.

Thank you.
It seems not everyone shares your rose tinted view tailing loop, out of interest which rivers in Scotland do you fish?

Canoeing and Salmon Fishing - Speyonline
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Old 30-07-2017, 07:00 AM
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Default Re: Canoe access Wales?

I can't help you with the current position in Wales, although this note from Fish Legal explains the legal background to navigation rights:

Angling Trust - Navigation

Here's an extract:

The Angling Trust & Fish Legal have long supported (and continue to support) the use of voluntary access agreements made locally by those who know the water best to provide managed access to rivers in ways which do not interfere with angling or cause damage to often fragile water environments. However, British Canoeing has often refused to sign up to such agreements and has discouraged paddlers from considering them, unless they offer access at all times and water heights. In doing so, they have fundamentally undermined such local arrangements by repeatedly refusing to accept the law.

To try and resolve this situation, Fish Legal commissioned legal advice from a leading QC which involved researching the law going back over hundreds of years. The summary of his advice could not be any clearer:

There is no general Public Right of Navigation (PRN) on English and Welsh non-tidal rivers for canoeists.
A PRN can only be established by long use of vessels on the relevant stretch of river, fulfilling all of the criteria below [these are set out more fully in David Hart QCs full Advice of September 2015].
That use must have been regular and habitual, and must have made the river of substantial practical value as a channel of communication or transport.
The time for which that use must be established is time immemorial.
The law is entirely clear on the above issues.
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Old 30-07-2017, 07:45 AM
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Default Re: Canoe access Wales?

I've lived in Wales for 2 and a half months so far I have come by 2 huge windsurfing boards (Diawl Bach will back me up here) 3 body boards and a set of kayak paddles. Oh and 2 white kayaks washed up on a tidal stretch. Never once in Cumbria did I come across this.

I have not got a problem with others using the waters in fact i would encourage it but when it comes to littering the rivers like this with little regard to others safety its beyond a joke. Imagine you were you were fishing on the start of a spate and a unmanned kayak slams into you.

Yet again its the few that ruin things for the rest. There are a lot of idiots out there in this day and age with out common sense and these people need guidance to follow.
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Old 30-07-2017, 11:23 AM
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Default Re: Canoe access Wales?

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Originally Posted by soldierpmr View Post
I've lived in Wales for 2 and a half months so far I have come by 2 huge windsurfing boards (Diawl Bach will back me up here) 3 body boards and a set of kayak paddles. Oh and 2 white kayaks washed up on a tidal stretch. Never once in Cumbria did I come across this.

I have not got a problem with others using the waters in fact i would encourage it but when it comes to littering the rivers like this with little regard to others safety its beyond a joke. Imagine you were you were fishing on the start of a spate and a unmanned kayak slams into you.

Yet again its the few that ruin things for the rest. There are a lot of idiots out there in this day and age with out common sense and these people need guidance to follow.

Hang on. Let's take this one at a time:

Two huge windsurfing boards....probable cost around 900 - 1200 each. Do you mean unscrupulous louts are throwing away such property on a whim?

3 body boards - only of use on the beach. So have been carried by wind and tide up the estuary.

Kayak paddle - that sounds like a white water paddler who got into trouble and has lost them - again they are 100 -300, so not the kind of thing people leave lying around (unless they were a cheap 'centre' set of alloy ones, akin to a scaffold pole with a nylon blade each end, 30.

I cannot believe ANY of your finds were deliberate littering and were the result of someone getting into difficulty. In which your finds should have been reported to the Police as they form part of the evidence for the MAIB (Marine Accident Investigation Bureau).
The body boards similarly are mostly used by holiday makers, especially children. More serious surfers use stand up Malibu style boards.

Nobody uses a windsurfer on a river - estuary yes, but not an inland river. I am surprised you didn't report your finds (you haven't said you did so we cannot think anything other) as you yourself consider them 'unusual' from your Cumbrian experience.

I fail to see how these finds have anything to do with inland water access, as other than the kayak paddle, they are clearly coastal items and have no bearing on the 'canoe access' discussion.

Nobody has yet managed to tell me anything new. I shall read the Spey thing in a minute - but this was specifically about Wales originally and I was interested in why there is so much opposition to 'canoe' access (read the term 'canoe' in its widest form to mean any kind of paddle craft) in Wales. I am sure there are some perfectly good reasons why there is this opposition, but nobody has been able to list them!
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