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Poll: How Often Do You Get Smashed

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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
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    South Yorkshire
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    Default Re: How Often Do You Get Smashed?

    Shock strength only comes into it if fishing with a broom handle

    The only time I was smashed while fishing was when I was beach casting with a full cool box, it took me a good twenty minutes to walk the 300 yards back to my caravan
    There are two basic fly designs, those designed to catch fish and those designed to catch fishermen, the latter being the best seller

  2. #22

    Default Re: How Often Do You Get Smashed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul_B View Post
    Shock strength only comes into it if fishing with a broom handle
    ... or if you do something stupid like fish with the rod pointing straight down the line...

    ... or if you get a twos-up of sizeable fish...

    The first two can be avoided. The last is serendipity, and I accept fluoro and low-diameter nylon are both poorer than eg Maxima at holding on to both ends of a twos-up.

    Quote Originally Posted by tangled View Post
    I have no doubts...
    If I claimed that fluorocarbon is an acceptable alternative to nylon for general fly fishing, I suspect you would doubt that?

    I also think you may have doubts that we are being charged a fair price for fluoro? However, I am a bit of a fluoroskeptic myself on that front.
    Last edited by Cap'n Fishy; 05-12-2019 at 04:12 PM.
    Please note that any views expressed in this post may be those of the
    originator and do not necessarily reflect those of the reader.

  3. #23

    Default Re: How Often Do You Get Smashed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cap'n Fishy View Post
    If I claimed that fluorocarbon is an acceptable alternative to nylon for general fly fishing, I suspect you would doubt that?
    It *is* an acceptable alternative to nylon, it's just not as strong in some critical situation so there's no advantage in using it for general fishing. I don't see any reason take an unnecessary risk?

    I also think you may have doubts that we are being charged a fair price for fluoro? However, I am a bit of a fluoroskeptic myself on that front.
    Again I have no doubts. But then I think we're being overcharged for almost anything marked 'fly', 'trout' or salmon. But that's just marketing and if we're mug enough to buy it, I'm not going to blame capitalism. I need people to pay too much for stuff so that the shops keep open. And the price would not stop me buying it (and hasn't) if there was an advantage.

  4. #24

    Default Re: How Often Do You Get Smashed?

    Quote Originally Posted by tangled View Post
    ... it's just not as strong in some critical situations ...
    You perceive this, where others do not. That is where the doubt lies. What are the critical situations?

    Quote Originally Posted by tangled View Post
    I had a disastrous season a few years ago with fluorocarbon with a lot of breakages...
    Hence you are doubtful you can trust it for general use, while others are not.

    Quote Originally Posted by tangled View Post
    ... I now only use it exceptionally and in fairly high breaking strengths...
    More doubt of being able to trust it...

    Quote Originally Posted by tangled View Post
    ... And then I'd use 8lb instead of 6lb.
    Poundage breaking strains are meaningless without the diameters. What diameters are your 6 and 8 lb?

    One of the reasons I always keep it as an alternative option to nylon is this thing we have identified with the light on the day giving one a big advantage over the other. When I am away up north for a week now, I am tending to alternate - nylon one day, fluoro the next... just to see if one is emerging as advantageous over the other. You have to be equally happy fishing both!

    Or do you doubt we have identified this as being a 'thing'?
    Last edited by Cap'n Fishy; 05-12-2019 at 05:39 PM.
    Please note that any views expressed in this post may be those of the
    originator and do not necessarily reflect those of the reader.

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
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    Default Re: How Often Do You Get Smashed?

    I believe nylon and flouro will light up equally in a given situation, my 1st venture into fluoro was through me seeing my leader shinning on a nice day.
    At the time I'd read about fluoro being invisible .

    Al
    Last edited by speytime; 05-12-2019 at 06:01 PM.

  6. #26

    Default Re: How Often Do You Get Smashed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cap'n Fishy View Post
    You perceive this, where others do not. That is where the doubt lies. What are the critical situations?
    Many others are saying the same. You've confirmed that fluorocarbon breaks before nylon in your own tests and I've confirmed it in mine. The book is closed.

    Poundage breaking strains are meaningless without the diameters. What diameters are your 6 and 8 lb?
    Ff$, we've done all this. I tested the same diameter nylon and fluorocarbon.

    One of the reasons I always keep it as an alternative option to nylon is this thing we have identified with the light on the day giving one a big advantage over the other. When I am away up north for a week now, I am tending to alternate - nylon one day, fluoro the next... just to see if one is emerging as advantageous over the other. You have to be equally happy fishing both!
    I'll be a bit more interested when you've worked out under what conditions it makes a difference. What we do know is that in bright conditions it flashes. Another downside.

    Or do you doubt we have identified this as being a 'thing'?
    I have no opinion on it. Certainly as you don't know when to use which one.

    All this just confirms that the use of fluorocarbon is a minor tactic.

  7. #27

    Default Re: How Often Do You Get Smashed?

    Quote Originally Posted by speytime View Post
    I believe nylon and flouro will light up equally in a given situation, my 1st venture into flouro was through me seeing my leader shinning on a nice day.
    At the time I'd read about it being invisible

    Al
    Aye, we all realised fluoro is far from invisible... especially on a sunny day... well, apart from the marketing people!

    However, if there is one thing that I would put my house on, it is that there are times when fluoro and nylon do not light up equally in a given situation. I've seen it too many times now for it to be anything other than a difference in the way the two materials show-up underwater. They are different. Their chemistry is different. Their physics is different. Their interaction with light is different. There have been times when 2 boat partners are fishing together on the drift, pulling wets on sinking lines and one is catching and the other is not. The one who is not, tries to tune-in to what he is doing wrong. He matches his successful partner's fly line in sink rate. He matches the team of flies he is fishing. He matches the cadence of his retrieve. All to no effect. Still, one is catching and the other is not. Finally, a comparison of leader materials reveals one is on nylon and one is on fluoro. The unsuccessful angler changes and, from that point on, he matches his partner in catch-rate. I accept it is just possible the sink rate of the fluoro could be a factor, but they are pulling wets, and the sinking lines are probably a bigger variable in the overall level the flies are being fished at. It's not publishable evidence or anything, just that I have seen it often enough now to know it has to be a light thing... and the light thing is a result of nylon and fluoro being different.

    Col
    Please note that any views expressed in this post may be those of the
    originator and do not necessarily reflect those of the reader.

  8. #28

    Default Re: How Often Do You Get Smashed?

    Quote Originally Posted by tangled View Post
    Many others are saying the same. You've confirmed that fluorocarbon breaks before nylon in your own tests
    Ah, OK, so, your 'critical situations' consist of doing tests in your house? I don't call that a 'critical situation', as it never happens while fishing. I'm interested in when they break when we are fishing. The only situation I have issues with on fluoro is the 'twos-up'. I then have to weigh up if this is enough to outweigh all the other situations where fluoro is a useful tool or even an advantage (the light thing). For me, the usefulnesses and the 'light thing' far outweigh this one issue of serendipity.

    Quote Originally Posted by tangled View Post
    Ff$, we've done all this. I tested the same diameter nylon and fluorocarbon.
    You misunderstand. I am asking you a straight question, out of interest. What is the diameter of your 6 lb and your 8 lb fluoro?

    Quote Originally Posted by tangled View Post
    I'll be a bit more interested when you've worked out under what conditions it makes a difference.
    Meanwhile, you remain a fluoroskeptic...

    Quote Originally Posted by tangled View Post
    What we do know is that in bright conditions it flashes. Another downside.
    Chalk up another mark for the fluoroskeptics.

    Quote Originally Posted by tangled View Post
    I have no opinion on it.
    Ha-ha! Good one!

    Quote Originally Posted by tangled View Post
    Certainly as you don't know when to use which one.
    Absolutely. I already made a big point of how all this comes about purely due to being able to fish a drifting boat with a boat partner on a regular basis, and how all our experiences will be treated with massive doubt by fluoroskeptics. Hey-ho. I don't need to prove anything to anyone. If you catch fewer fish than me over a season by never using fluoro, I can laugh up my sleeve at you. I have no need to tell anyone about what we have found. If you want to reject it all as evidence of 'difference that makes a difference', be my guest.

    Quote Originally Posted by tangled View Post
    All this just confirms that the use of fluorocarbon is a minor tactic.
    Spoken like a true fluoroskeptic!
    Please note that any views expressed in this post may be those of the
    originator and do not necessarily reflect those of the reader.

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
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    Wiltshire
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    7,711

    Default Re: How Often Do You Get Smashed?

    I certainly think that the term "smash" take is something of a misnomer. It implies that the fish is racing along and grabs the fly in passing and while a fish may well chase a fly when it is being pulled that is not always the case.

    The hardest takes I generally get are when I'm straight line nymphing off the bank at Farmoor. I've often watched trout there just mooching along a few feet out parallel to the bank and following the algal weed beds that grow on the concrete. Even when they swing to one side to take something subsurface they are in no great hurry. Takes under those circumstances tend to be in two categories - subtle or brutal.

    The subtle take is when the fish is swimming towards me. It just takes the nymph and in very short order realises it is not food and spits it out. The take is just felt as a brief "heaviness" on the line. The brutal take seems to be when the fish are swimming away and here I suspect they feel either the drag of the leader and line, or more likely they feel the hook and just bolt. Either way, this is the take most likely to result in a break because it is at very close range with often no more than three or four yards of line on the water. To counter this I use Gigafish in 9.9lb which is .20mm with 5 turn tucked half blood knots for the flies and Fig 8 knots for the droppers. I take care with the knots and if I have the slightest doubt about one or the other I will re-tie it.

    Do I get broken regularly? No. Do I get broken at all? Yes, very, very occasionally the same as everyone does. No-one goes through a fishing life without a break-off from time to time.

    tangled can test all the lines, fluoro or nylon, as much as he likes and it makes no difference because he can't test the anglers only himself. There is a human element in there and we all react differently.

  10. #30
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    Default Re: How Often Do You Get Smashed?

    If the definition of a smash take is getting broken on the take then I've never experienced that, the fish I've lost to droppers failing have been hooked and lost during play without any heavy handed tactics.

    Al

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