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  1. #31
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    Default Re: Bob P, just wondering...

    John,

    I remember when I was working out of the Guildford office of the then NRA that we had a sudden mortality of native crayfish on the upper River Wey. I moved to that office in 1983 and this was some time after that so at a guess easily '85 -'86. The mortality was attributed to the presence of Signals and the bacterium they carried to which our natives had no defence.

    I also recall reading that Signals came in during the late '70's when farmers were encouraged by MAFF, as it was then, to diversify after our entrance to the EEC, later EU.

    I guess the fact that the video is in colour puts it into the latter half of the '70's. Being poor at the time I watched Hargreaves in B & W. I only met Behrendt once, but what I have read of the man I can readily see that he would have seized on something that would make good money and crayfish were certainly that at the time, but it puzzles me that there do not seem to be any reports of Signals at large in the wider environment for another ten years and then it was Thames Region where they appeared in numbers.

    We had the first commercial trapper who in the early days made enough money in two years to buy a Porsche, and we had the first set of byelaws applicable to trapping Signal crayfish and these subsequently formed the basis of the National byelaw.

    An interesting bit of history in that video and if you, or anyone, can narrow it down I'd be interested.

  2. #32
    Join Date
    May 2006
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    Near Southampton
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    4,226

    Default Re: Bob P, just wondering...

    Bob, having read about Alex Behrendt in Brian Clarke's book "On Fishing", he was a highly trained carp farmer in Germany before conscription into the Wehrmacht in WW2, becoming a prisoner of war held at Romsey and settling there, marrying an English woman and establishing 2 Lakes. From the video, he is taking very good care to ensure his stock of signals are closely confined in those boxes so perhaps no surprise there were no escapes. In his blog, Simon Cooper reported the recent discovery of a previously unknown relict population of native white claw crayfish in a "Test tributary" so AB clearly did a good job containing those signal crays.
    "In wine there is wisdom. In beer there is strength. In water there is bacteria." - German proverb
    JH based near Southampton

  3. #33
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    Oct 2019
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    Hampshire UK
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    Default Re: Bob P, just wondering...

    Double post.

  4. #34
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    Oct 2019
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    Hampshire UK
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    Default Re: Bob P, just wondering...

    Neither the film title nor Hargreaves himself gets Barrie Welham's name right.

    They made similar mistakes about Clive the Conqueror in 1056

    And neither Barrie Welham nor 'Barrie Wheldon' invented or named the 'BW' nymph. It was named by the original inventor, (lieutenant) Colonel Locke who called it the 'Brown Woolly'. The later one is merely a modification - "Let's put a bit of flashy stuff on too" which reduces it to just another Christmas decoration lure.

  5. #35
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    Default Re: Bob P, just wondering...

    Quote Originally Posted by flyfisher222 View Post
    Neither the film title nor Hargreaves himself gets Barrie Welham's name right.

    They made a similar mistake with Clive the Conqueror in 1056.
    You were around then as well?

  6. #36
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    Oct 2019
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    Default Re: Bob P, just wondering...

    Quote Originally Posted by BobP View Post
    You were around then as well?
    No. I was being facetious about his name, and he arrived before I was born at Lyndhurst.
    Which is in the forest he had planted ten years earlier than most people think.

    "Here we are serfs, just arrived in the UK, get planting those seedlings".

  7. #37
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    Default Re: Bob P, just wondering...

    I'm not in the least surprised because when you get down to it there are very, very few truly original fly patterns as in "never been done before in any way, shape or form." I think you'd need to go a long way back into history to find the true originator of most of our fly patterns.

    You see it all the time on here in the fly dressing section. I've done it as has every other fly dresser now, in the past and probably in the future as well. You get an idea, look into it, find someone else has already made a fly to imitate that insect or whatever, add a possibly newer material to the fly and you have a "new" fly.

    I have a Gammarus pattern that I first created in 1971 after finding a trout's belly stuffed with shrimps. I happened to note that many of the shrimps had a distinct pink tinge to them so created an artificial using a small amount of pink fluorescent floss mixed in with hares fur. I then found that C .F. Walker in his 1960 book "Lake Flies and their Imitation." had gone down much the same route only he didn't have the pink floss that I had.

    That fly has grown up a bit since those days and is now at Mk 9 and I do not intend that there should be a Mk10. At least, not by me.

  8. #38
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    Oct 2019
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    Hampshire UK
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    Default Re: Bob P, just wondering...

    Quote Originally Posted by BobP View Post
    I'm not in the least surprised because when you get down to it there are very, very few truly original fly patterns as in "never been done before in any way, shape or form." I think you'd need to go a long way back into history to find the true originator of most of our fly patterns.

    You see it all the time on here in the fly dressing section. I've done it as has every other fly dresser now, in the past and probably in the future as well. You get an idea, look into it, find someone else has already made a fly to imitate that insect or whatever, add a possibly newer material to the fly and you have a "new" fly.

    I have a Gammarus pattern that I first created in 1971 after finding a trout's belly stuffed with shrimps. I happened to note that many of the shrimps had a distinct pink tinge to them so created an artificial using a small amount of pink fluorescent floss mixed in with hares fur. I then found that C .F. Walker in his 1960 book "Lake Flies and their Imitation." had gone down much the same route only he didn't have the pink floss that I had.

    That fly has grown up a bit since those days and is now at Mk 9 and I do not intend that there should be a Mk10. At least, not by me.
    It's all fine unless egotistical people or magazine 'hacks' put their name on it as if it was their idea.

    Not that I'm accusing Welham of that. It seems to be other people that called it the Barrie Welham nymph,

    But read some people such as Jardine you'd think he invented fly fishing.
    (Someone I know, not a fisherman, gave me one of his books. Not even the publisher thought it had any 'merits' as it was basically a brightly coloured 'coffee table' advert all the way though and had to be sponsored by Sotheby's to get published at all. And who, of course, sell used fishing tackle )

  9. #39
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    Default Re: Bob P, just wondering...

    Quote Originally Posted by flyfisher222 View Post
    It's all fine unless egotistical people or magazine 'hacks' put their name on it as if it was their idea.

    Not that I'm accusing Welham of that. It seems to be other people that called it the Barrie Welham nymph,

    But read some people such as Jardine you'd think he invented fly fishing.
    (Someone I know, not a fisherman, gave me one of his books. Not even the publisher thought it had any 'merits' as it was basically a brightly coloured 'coffee table' advert all the way though and had to be sponsored by Sotheby's to get published at all. And who, of course, sell used fishing tackle )
    You really don't like anyone but yourself do you? Quite happy to slag off all and sundry, and especially anyone who has had the temerity to actually write anything about fly fishing or fly tying.

    I guided for CJ at the last River Test One Fly in 2018. Not the first time I had met him. He is a very decent fly fisherman - better than most though not as good as some I have known. Also he is a very good artist though I expect you'll have something rude and unpleasant to say about that as well.

  10. #40
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    Default Re: Bob P, just wondering...

    Quote Originally Posted by BobP View Post
    You really don't like anyone but yourself do you? Quite happy to slag off all and sundry, and especially anyone who has had the temerity to actually write anything about fly fishing or fly tying.

    I guided for CJ at the last River Test One Fly in 2018. Not the first time I had met him. He is a very decent fly fisherman - better than most though not as good as some I have known. Also he is a very good artist though I expect you'll have something rude and unpleasant to say about that as well.
    B****y One Fly. Whatever happened to "quiet contemplation"?

    But least it gave you another chance to suck up to the 'famous' and tell us you had done so. I trust Jardine gave you a good tip. One can never tell how such people will treat their flunkies.

    Artist?
    Jardine is a fairly competent 'technical illustrator'. No more than that.

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