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  1. #1
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    Default River and Small Stream Current Eddies

    How come, when you're fishing your flies in water with two current eddies in it, why don't your flies follow the same path? The reason I ask this is, when you watch the flies move, they don't travel through the same water, in the same manner. What governs the way the current moves.

    I know you'll say the bottom topography or wind action, but, even on small waters, the flies behave the same, unless leaded. Why is this?
    Last edited by smudger564; 13-06-2010 at 03:26 PM. Reason: Placed in wrong content post

  2. #2
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    Default

    This is because you have a current affecting the drift of your flies and a different current affecting the line that is attached to your flies....

    Drop a small twig onto a river and watch it glide with the current, then do the same with a twig attached to some line....and try to match the flow of the river whilst holding the line, this can be a difficult thing to do

    Chris

  3. #3
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    Default Matching the flow

    Hi Chris, You're right with trying to match the flow, very difficult. Iv'e tried this a long while ago, while Czech nymphing on the Diemel in Germany, using a bright indicator fly on a dropper.

    It's very hard to concentrate for long periods, on watching the dropper for current pace and drift. Which I suppose in some ways, explains why certain observant fishermen, are very good at judging water movement.

    A well versed and practised fisherman, will know how vital fly placement and how current drift, can effect how a fish moves toward a fly. Any unnatural movement will send the fish elsewhere.

    Thank You Chris, Nice observation.

    Best Regards

    Stuart

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by smudger564 View Post
    How come, when you're fishing your flies in water with two current eddies in it, why don't your flies follow the same path? The reason I ask this is, when you watch the flies move, they don't travel through the same water, in the same manner. What governs the way the current moves.

    I know you'll say the bottom topography or wind action, but, even on small waters, the flies behave the same, unless leaded. Why is this?
    I believe you've answered your own question! It's the underlying pattern of stones a channel or grove in the ground; and as to why the flies wont follow the same line through? Simple, it's attached to your fly line, best you can do to alleviate this happening is to high stick your rod, or use only a long leader through that particular section! There's also an art to presenting a fly in those fast water situations; and you can bet there's a nice fish in there - just waiting for you to get that presentation perfectly placed.

  5. #5
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    Default Noticed that

    Hi Mostyn, Yeah, nice fish are'nt stupid, they tended to lie up in good points on the pools. Total control was rewarded with a take and bad casts or loss of control, resulted in nothing.

    Good points there, thanks.

    Regards

    Stuart

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by smudger564 View Post
    Hi Mostyn, Yeah, nice fish are'nt stupid, they tended to lie up in good points on the pools. Total control was rewarded with a take and bad casts or loss of control, resulted in nothing.

    Good points there, thanks.

    Regards

    Stuart
    Where your situated also makes a difference! move yourself to another position when fishing these back pull waters; and sometimes you can counter the drift of your fly in to the slack water!

    We all have the same problems when fishing these flowing waters!

  7. #7
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    Default Yeah tried these

    Hi Mostyn, I know what your saying by moving your position. Trying for another angle to change the way the flies behave, good point. Thanks.

    Regards

    Stuart

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by smudger564 View Post
    Hi Chris, You're right with trying to match the flow, very difficult. Iv'e tried this a long while ago, while Czech nymphing on the Diemel in Germany, using a bright indicator fly on a dropper.

    It's very hard to concentrate for long periods, on watching the dropper for current pace and drift. Which I suppose in some ways, explains why certain observant fishermen, are very good at judging water movement.

    A well versed and practised fisherman, will know how vital fly placement and how current drift, can effect how a fish moves toward a fly. Any unnatural movement will send the fish elsewhere.

    Thank You Chris, Nice observation.

    Best Regards

    Stuart
    Hi Stuart,

    seems your an expert at difficult eddies fishing, perhaps you could enlighten us on how you usually over come these so called problems? I imagine you could answer your own original question quite well.

    Interesting though.

    Regards

    TF

  9. #9
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    Default Far from it?

    Hi TF, Far from it. We seem to have drifted away from the original question which was....

    How come, when you're fishing your flies in water with two current eddies in it, why don't your flies follow the same path? The reason I ask this is, when you watch the flies move, they don't travel through the same water, in the same manner. What governs the way the current moves?....

    What do you say MrFox?

    Regards

    Stuart

  10. #10
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    Default

    Stuart

    I think that your question may be too big to answer simply. My experience is from aerodynamics but air and water behave in much the same way provided the air is subsonic. Additionally, it is very rusty because it has been more than a few years since I have sat in a classroom

    With the bottom and obstructions such as rocks, close to the obstruction you will get some skin friction that will slow the water down, further away the water will try to travel faster until you get a shearing effect between the layers and behind the obstruction you will get eddy currents which will cause significant drag effects on the water flow. The difference between these 2 points in often termed near field and far field effects. Where this point occurs will be determined by water velocity, pressure, temperature and density, with the last 3 being particularly related. The equation of state and bernoullis, for the nerds is below.

    Equation of State

    Bernoulli's Equation

    Localised flow variations of the water, even in stillwater can occur due to the heating effects of the sun or perhaps spring water injection. On a river the effects are much more dynamic. Modelling these flows over any area takes a computer the size of a house and a brain the size of a planet, both of which are beyond me.

    Hope this helps

    regards

    Vince

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