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  1. #1
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    Default Varnish or epoxy

    Sometime in the future i plan to build a carbon fly rod using a harrison blank.I know the blanks come in different finishes but i was going to go for the unground gloss blank, now what an ungroung gloss blank looks like i have no idea.I am in two minds as to wether to use varnish or epoxy for the finish or a combination of the two ie: whippings in epoxy and the main blank in varnish, or for that matter the whole lot in varnish.
    The last time i mucked around with rod building was when i was a kid and they were splitcane, mainly doing repairs to my dads rods
    Any advice would be welcome

  2. #2
    jan Guest

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    neither - the blank will probably have a shiny wrapped finish that requires no further coating. i would go for the ground matt finish, then just give it a light wipe with wax after epoxying the whippings - no need for a flashy coat and it adds nothing but weight. Varnish just chips and cracks off, and scares fish - shame that more manufacturers dont make matt finish rods like b&w

  3. #3
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    alconbury weston, huntingdon,england
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    Default epoxy

    My advice would be to not put anything on the blank, and to epoxy the whippings - my favourite is 'flex-coat.

    I f you really want to do the blank, then again use epoxy, but it must be a thin coat, don't use a high-build

    Cheers

    MArk

  4. #4
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    Default

    Thanks Guys

    When looking at the 2 varnishes epoxy is ok but expensive for what you get, polyurethane or spar is more economic, alright you will have to put about 6 coats on and something to seal the threads but thats the fun of it and the constant turning of the rod to dry the epoxy is a pain .I would like a glossy rod ,just to be a ponse , im not a stream fisher so i dont believe that flash would be much of a disavantage and is a matter of arguement Another thing The spline, so much has been said about it but there seems to be no real answer, some say this ,some say that and some dont care as long as the rods striaght, i will be using a dt6 line on this rod so will be looking for a more progressive ,rather than tippy action,so should the spline be at the front or the back,if i can find it ,Tried my rods ,couldnt find the spline on them

    Cheers Gaz

  5. #5
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    May 2006
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    alconbury weston, huntingdon,england
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    105

    Default varnish/Spline

    I believe that using traditional varnish is a false economy nowadays. Epoxy is so much stronger and you are unlikely to get cracked whippings. If you varnish the whole rod you are likely to get it flaking off if you ever get a scratch - but hey, we managed with poly for many years. the up side of poly is that it will be a lot easier to re-ring if you use wire snakes and wear them out.

    As for the spline there are 2 schools of thought - if you can find it! do a search on google there sre several sites that will explain how to find it. Most people fit the rings such that they get the the spline to provide the extra stiffness for casting, and the softer side comes into play for playing the fish.

    Fitting the rings so that the softer side comes into play for casting will not make the blank any more progressive - it will not change the caction, just soften the blank so you may get away with a 5 wt on a 6wt rod as opposed to just being able to cast a 7wt if the rings are on the stiff side

    Hope this helps

    Mark

  6. #6
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    nr. Machynlleth, Wales, UK
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    Default

    snaggit,

    As others have said there is no need to varnish the blank, in fact it is more likely to be to the detriment of the action and recovery speed than of any value.
    Traditional air drying type varnish will marr easily and soon look scruffy and on a poorly prepared surface may chip and ultimately flake.

    Do not attempt to use epoxy thread finish to coat the blank.
    This is not suitable for the job at all and will crack and flake. It was originally developed as a casting resin and has relatively poor adhesion.
    There are special epoxy rod 'paints' and clear coatings designed for coating blanks, but as far as I know, these can only be obtained from the US.

    From the description of the blank you are thinking of buying, this will have a hard glossy finish anyway - the 'unground' bit means that it will still have the slightly raised spiral that results from wrapping the carbon cloth tightly whilst it is oven cured. Many rods have this finish.

    Dave.

  7. #7
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    Default

    Thanks for your repies Guys

    I know your going to think im a pain in the A*** but heres another question,
    Guides or rod rings as i like to call them, now most rod have snakes on them , which do you think has an advantage the US or English snakes or do single legs out perform the snakes, also lined or unlined The rings arnt exactly expensive when compared to the blank, so is it worth go for some good quality fuji,s or is it just throwing money down the drain

  8. #8
    jan Guest

    Default

    ah well,there's a question - i am all for fuji's, as i am sure is dave, and fuji reel seats - but others still support the aluminium reel seats and wire snakes, citing the fact that the big rod manufacturers still use them. I am convinced that they only use them as they are afraid that ill informed customers wil not buy their rods if they change to modern fittings - certainly redington changed the redfly from a fuji reel seat to an aluminium one on later builds as it was viewed as 'cheap' in the USA and didnt sell - the triumph of appearance over functionality - rather odd when you look at every other branch of angling where its pretty hard not to find fuji reel seats and lined rings dominating the market.

    As to price, well, a fuji reelseat is pennies, but lined rings are a lot dearer than snakes , however you only ever buy them once - i still have fujis on rods from 30 years ago, still perfect. Cost can be an issue if you go upmarket - i put a set of titanium SiC fujis on a rod recently - great rings but well over 70 a set, and i cant say that i notice any huge difference in performance over standard lined rings - although they are only half the weight. I probably wouldnt buy them again.

    In the end, you pay your money and make your choice - i like fujis or equivalent, others hate them - there doesnt seem to be any empirical evidence out there recorded over hundreds of casts as to which gives superior performance in casting. The market is traditional and prefers snakes.

  9. #9
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jan
    ah well,there's a question - i am all for fuji's, as i am sure is dave, and fuji reel seats - but others still support the aluminium reel seats and wire snakes, citing the fact that the big rod manufacturers still use them. I am convinced that they only use them as they are afraid that ill informed customers wil not buy their rods if they change to modern fittings - certainly redington changed the redfly from a fuji reel seat to an aluminium one on later builds as it was viewed as 'cheap' in the USA and didnt sell - the triumph of appearance over functionality - rather odd when you look at every other branch of angling where its pretty hard not to find fuji reel seats and lined rings dominating the market.

    As to price, well, a fuji reelseat is pennies, but lined rings are a lot dearer than snakes , however you only ever buy them once - i still have fujis on rods from 30 years ago, still perfect. Cost can be an issue if you go upmarket - i put a set of titanium SiC fujis on a rod recently - great rings but well over 70 a set, and i cant say that i notice any huge difference in performance over standard lined rings - although they are only half the weight. I probably wouldnt buy them again.

    In the end, you pay your money and make your choice - i like fujis or equivalent, others hate them - there doesnt seem to be any empirical evidence out there recorded over hundreds of casts as to which gives superior performance in casting. The market is traditional and prefers snakes.
    Thanks Jan

    I suppose there is a case of the manafacture keeping snakes due to there price, they are functional and do the job well, above all cheap in bulk, im certianly thinking of fuji,s but not the titanium ones alittle to expensive for me P/S do you know what colour the harrison blanks are?

  10. #10
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    May 2006
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    Default

    snaggit,

    Like jan my preference is for ceramic lined rings. (and Fuji reel fittings)

    Have a look here for discussions regarding the relative merits of snakes and ceramic lined rings :
    http://flyforums.proboards53.com/ind...d=1137 625930
    and follow the links in my post.

    I never use anything other than Fuji reel fittings on my own rods having seen a few of the wood spacer type that have literally fallen apart. The Fuji ones are indestructible, light weight and anyone who has used one will tell you they never work loose.

    I too started rod building in the cane era - things have moved on a bit since then and to get you up to date it's well worth the time spent having a look through the older threads on this board.

    Dave.

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