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  1. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by JayP
    http://www.flyforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=1170

    shame about the bubbles..........

    Thanks JayP. I'll make sure I get the bubbles out next time - Photoshop should do it.

    Best pictures of whippings I've seen are on the Barder site:

    http://www.barder-rod.co.uk/index.ht...rame=home.html

    I think I picked up a rumour on the Rodmakers list server that he uses epoxy though (practically qualifies as cheating on Rodmakers).

    Ian

  2. #12
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Sandy, Beds
    Posts
    2,240

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    Quote Originally Posted by IanH
    Thanks JayP. I'll make sure I get the bubbles out next time - Photoshop should do it.
    It was said in jest Ian!
    However I would love to know from a rod building expert how you would get rid of those bubbles!?

  3. #13

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    I took it in jest

    Gary Marshall (finecanerods) says suck the bubbles out with a fine tube. I guess a syringe with a fine needle would do it as well.

    Might have helped if I'd filed the feet at the side a bit more so there was less of a void.

    Also helps if the varnish is added to the closed end first to chase the air out to the open end next to the leg.

    I have a feeling it's case of practise makes perfect.

    Ian
    Last edited by IanH; 19-08-2006 at 04:09 PM.

  4. #14

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    I'm not sure if this would be a good idea on cane, but I found using a hairedryer as the rod turns, gets rid of bubbles.
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  5. #15

    Default Transparent/translucent wraps

    These are traditional on American fly rods. Garrison used white silk to achieve transparent wraps. The finer the silk the clearer it will be and all colours react differently.

    The traditional approach is to use thinned varnish to soak the threads, the trouble with this is that as the thinners evaporate air can be trapped leaving either definate bubbles or "shimmers" in the silk. This can be overcome with careful technique (progressive application, too much at once gives leaks too little and left to dry gives shimmers) or the use of thinned epoxy for the first coat. As the epoxy does not shrink as much as varnish when it cures there is less likelihood of bubbles. Thinning can be with acetone or alcohol. Bubbles can however still be trapped if the epoxy or varnish is not applied correctly. Application should start at the end of the guide foot and work towards the ring, driving air out at the end. When you still have bubbles it is time to reach for the fine tube, the sort that comes with WD 40 is ideal.

    Some rodmakers eschew the use of epoxy and quite rightly if the aim is to produce the bulbous one coat finish that looks out of place on a cane rod. However for the use described above it is very handy and some silks are almost impossible without it.

    I hope this helps


    Gary Marshall

    www.finecanerods.com

  6. #16

    Default Transparent wraps

    For those who are interested in how transparent wraps are achieved, follow the link below, go to the rodmaking page and scroll down to the bottom.

    I had to do some trial wraps for a customer so I recorded the stages.

    Cheers

    Gary Marshall

    www.finecanerods.com

  7. #17
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    alconbury weston, huntingdon,england
    Posts
    105

    Default Bulbous Wraps!

    Just because you use epoxy, it doesnt mean that you will get bulbous wraps. If you want to guarantee that a single coat will cover the rod then by all means use a thickly applied coat of a high-build, but if you are prepared to apply the epoxy 2 or 3 times, then an excellent finish - that will not crack - can easily be achieved with epoxy

    To avoid bubbles with epoxy, mix carefully - at least 5 minutes - and not too fast. If you still get bubbles when applying the epoxy try blowing through a straw while the rod is turning, ensuring that you are using the epoxy at a good room temperature

    Cheers

    Mark

  8. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by g.marshall50@ntlworld.com
    I had to do some trial wraps for a customer so I recorded the stages.

    Cheers

    Gary Marshall

    www.finecanerods.com
    Gary

    How long do you leave between your first, second and thirds? Do you put the second on before the first is dry?

    It's the first coat that gives me trouble - either too thin & shimmers or too thick and takes ages to dry.

    I've got some Owatrol which you recommended. See how I go with that.

    Ian

  9. #19

    Default Transparent wraps

    Ian,

    Yes the first coat is the problem which is why people turn to epoxy. When using varnish I apply the first thinned coat flooding it on to soak the silk but then wipe most of it off, perservere by dabbing with the brush if necessary. After about half an hour when the first coat has tacked I apply another coat enough to give an even finish but not so thick it runs. If you are lucky the varnish will dry back to expose the thread texture but not enough to get shimmers. I should note that for some reason certain colours almost always get some shimmers which is why I now use epoxy for some wraps.

    The thread tension has an effect try using slightly less.

    Unfortunately applying a thick coat and keeping it turning will not help as you will get problems with the varnish drying badly and the problem you get depends on the type of varnish you are using. With Schooner because it skins quickly it will trap wet varnish under the surface and as the upper layers continue to dry it will wrinkle and it takes an age for the varnish to harden right through so you can sand off the mess. If you made the same mistake with epoxy you would just sand it off the next day.

    If your only problem is it taking more time to dry you are doing OK.

    As with all things practice and experience in the materials you are using is the most important. I would always suggest doing some trials before working on a rod and this has the added benefit of giving you colour samples. I do this for all the colours I use and for some specific colours I use a lot, like the greens used to restore some Hardy rods, I have a stick with 8 different colours each finished four different ways.

    After the first coat I normally apply one coat a day and leave a few days after the last coat before sanding or polishing. The nice thing about Owatrol is that it makes an already good varnish even better and it goes on very smoothly.

    Mark, I agree with you entirely and have had satisfactory results doing as you describe. It remains my preference to finish with varnish. As I said in my earlier post some rodmakers disapprove of using epoxy for the wraps on cane rods, some out of tradition, some because the material can be used in a way that certainly does not look traditional and some because they see the time consuming process of varnishing as being somehow good for the soul. There are as many who use epoxy regularly because of its speed and effectiveness and they can produce elegant results. It is a matter of choice as it is not even possible to say one particular result is definately "better" however that is defined, as I know a lot of anglers who love the rounded rugby ball style finish, I'm not one of them and from your comments I assume neither are you.

    Gary Marshall
    www.finecanerods.com

  10. #20
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Swindon
    Posts
    71

    Default

    Hi Gary

    I hope you don't mind me asking, but what is Owatrol ? I get the impression from your mentions of it that it is a varnish additive or similar ?

    Cheers

    Pat

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