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  #21  
Old 16-07-2017, 08:02 AM
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Default Re: Non-native salmon species

Lets face it, mankind has made a proper mess of the planet and continues to do so never learning from past mistakes. Pacific salmon are only one of thousands of species introduced either purposely or inadvertently into new areas to the detriment of native species, I have the feeling that if it does establish itself in our rivers, we will just have to make the best of it after all, how many would complain if migratory Arctic Char or Arctic Grayling established themselves in our waterways.
Rainbow trout, Huchen, Brook trout, Largemouth Bass, Zander, Horned Pout, Grass Carp, Sterlet, All recently introduced or escaped into our waters, we even stock Brown Trout into waters to "supplement" the resident stock, not many are complaining about those when they catch them.
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  #22  
Old 17-07-2017, 08:36 AM
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Thumbs down Re: Non-native salmon species

In Scotland we have our hands full trying to preserve our indigenous Atlantic Salmon, we do not need further pressure applied against survival by the arrival of another species who it appears have competitive characteristics.
Our salmon have to contend with a host of pressures, to name a few, diminishing spawning areas, poorer water quality, beaver activity, smolt predation, increased sea lice numbers, disease from salmon farms, invasive crayfish, astronomical increase in seal numbers around estuaries.
We should be continuing to focus and preserve on what we have and not encourage a 'replacement'.

M
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  #23  
Old 17-07-2017, 09:20 AM
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Default Re: Non-native salmon species

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Originally Posted by disappearingsalmon View Post
In Scotland we have our hands full trying to preserve our indigenous Atlantic Salmon, we do not need further pressure applied against survival by the arrival of another species who it appears have competitive characteristics.
Our salmon have to contend with a host of pressures, to name a few, diminishing spawning areas, poorer water quality, beaver activity, smolt predation, increased sea lice numbers, disease from salmon farms, invasive crayfish, astronomical increase in seal numbers around estuaries.
We should be continuing to focus and preserve on what we have and not encourage a 'replacement'.

M
I absolutely agree but where do you put the pressure to bring about a change?, ever since I can remember these things been happening and there has been little success in halting the decline.
There appears to be no agreement on the way forward and with no action on the horizon of tighter controls on salmon farms, high seas fishing, culling of invasive and predatory species, what do you do?.
Whatever might be proposed will be fought by one vested interest or another.
To be brutally honest, I can see a time when the Atlantic Salmon becomes extinct in the wild, especially in Scotland, where to then?. Sea Trout will probably go the same way.
It's a sad state of affairs.
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  #24  
Old 17-07-2017, 09:30 AM
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Default Re: Non-native salmon species

We have a habit as humans as seeing ourselves as separate from the natural world. If you believe that humans are animals then we can say that human induced environmental changes and species introductions are natural!

When people talk about saving the planet what we really mean is preserving the climate so it remains suitable for human habitation - the planet has endured a lot worse than use! Or if we're talking about invasive species (or reintroducing otters/beavers) then the motive behind our actions is about preserving an environment that way WE would like it to be.

So we have to face the fact that the Atlantic salmon could be destined for extirpation locally and extinction nationally. Perhaps we should let them go gracefully and embrace whatever replaces them - be it the pink salmon or otherwise.

That's not to say that we shouldn't try to conserve the species by any means. But a combination of high fish consumption, economic over environmental policies, intensive farming practices and population growth means that conservation efforts to save the species are sadly in an uphill struggle.

Last edited by T_James; 17-07-2017 at 09:57 AM.
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  #25  
Old 21-07-2017, 04:19 PM
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Default Re: Non-native salmon species

I see the Tweed has joined the list of rivers with Pink salmon. Most of the experts are saying we have nothing to worry about........I have also heard that some beats are adding these fish to their catch records....hmm
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  #26  
Old 21-07-2017, 05:51 PM
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Default Re: Non-native salmon species

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Most of the experts are saying we have nothing to worry about.......

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  #27  
Old 21-07-2017, 06:18 PM
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Default Re: Non-native salmon species

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Originally Posted by T_James View Post
We have a habit as humans as seeing ourselves as separate from the natural world. If you believe that humans are animals then we can say that human induced environmental changes and species introductions are natural!

When people talk about saving the planet what we really mean is preserving the climate so it remains suitable for human habitation - the planet has endured a lot worse than use! Or if we're talking about invasive species (or reintroducing otters/beavers) then the motive behind our actions is about preserving an environment that way WE would like it to be.

But isn't that a premise to allow widespread pollution and nuclear proliferation? In that viewpoint their destructive end results would merely be natural expressions of humanity interacting with its environment. I've heard these views a few times and my take on it is that it's a kind of neo-liberal route towards environmental Armageddon. I can appreciate the argument but I don't support it, the end results don't look too appealing!
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  #28  
Old 23-07-2017, 05:57 PM
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Default Re: Non-native salmon species

I was in Russia recently and caught both atlantic and pacific salmon.

There are a few advantages for us with the pinks 1) there seem to be a lot of them when they appear and it's great to catch a salmon at all. 2) you are obliged to kill them - so you can also eat them.

They don't seem to interfere with the atlantics - they breed lower down that the atlantics and run a little later.

Being new to salmon fishing it's hard to be definitive about this but the Russians regard them as vermin, trash fish - which seems a little harsh, they're a fine fish and fight and eat well.
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  #29  
Old 23-07-2017, 07:47 PM
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Default Re: Non-native salmon species

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Originally Posted by tangled View Post
I was in Russia recently and caught both atlantic and pacific salmon.

There are a few advantages for us with the pinks 1) there seem to be a lot of them when they appear and it's great to catch a salmon at all. 2) you are obliged to kill them - so you can also eat them.

They don't seem to interfere with the atlantics - they breed lower down that the atlantics and run a little later.

Being new to salmon fishing it's hard to be definitive about this but the Russians regard them as vermin, trash fish - which seems a little harsh, they're a fine fish and fight and eat well.
As you acknowledge that you are new to salmon fishing, and with all due respect, I would advise you to do some reading research on the subject, before condemning the Russians views on the impact of pink salmon! You are telling us that you have been to Russia and caught pinks, which, according to your views, gives "us" some advantages! For your information, they do seriously interfere with the Atlantic spawning and are just a nuisance in Atlantic salmon rivers, both in Russia and Northern Norway! If you want to catch pinks, go to Alaska or the Russian Far East, but please stop writing b..l s..t on the subject before you master it properly! Thanks on behalf of all of us who have been fishing Atlantic since before you were even born!
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Last edited by gauldalen; 23-07-2017 at 07:49 PM.
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  #30  
Old 23-07-2017, 08:11 PM
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Default Re: Non-native salmon species

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Originally Posted by gauldalen View Post
As you acknowledge that you are new to salmon fishing, and with all due respect, I would advise you to do some reading research on the subject, before condemning the Russians views on the impact of pink salmon! You are telling us that you have been to Russia and caught pinks, which, according to your views, gives "us" some advantages! For your information, they do seriously interfere with the Atlantic spawning and are just a nuisance in Atlantic salmon rivers, both in Russia and Northern Norway! If you want to catch pinks, go to Alaska or the Russian Far East, but please stop writing b..l s..t on the subject before you master it properly! Thanks on behalf of all of us who have been fishing Atlantic since before you were even born!
Oh dear, yet another issue where counter-cultural information is dismissed without thought or evidence. Sorry, I'm not that easily shut up.

The pinks are generally regarded as a nuisance by salmon anglers in Russia, mostly it seems to me because they'd prefer to catch the much larger atlantics, not because they interfere with them. They were fairly adamant that they bred in different locations so spawning was not the issue. True or not I wouldn't know - yet. They arrive a little later than the atlantics but when they do arrive they lie in mostly the same pools so I can see that becoming an issue.

Given that the chances of catching an atlantic in the UK are now pathetically slight, what's wrong with the improving the chances of catching a salmon with pinks?

Just to be clear, I'm not advocating introducing pinks, I'm just saying why not enjoy their existence given that they're here rather than being fishist?
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