4# for rainbow trout ?

dave b

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Have a look at this clip of Lee and Joan Wulff and the tackle they're using, move to 8 min 20sec, Lee Wulff is using a 6ft rod and a 4lb point. Now it's not the Spey in spate but it demonstrates that light tackle has its place . . .

Paul, that would have been a proper good old fashioned 4lb hook length and correct me if I'm wrong but proper salmon hooks? Not sure what weight rod he's using but you can't help admire how he puts a line out.

So much for the tippet determining the fly size
 

Cap'n Fishy

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Exactly! Fundamentally the pressure you can apply with all rods is exactly the same. However lighter rods are much better at protecting light tippets, hookholds and small hooks. Heavier rods are better at casting big heavy flies and fast sinking lines. Choose the lightest rod that will do the angling job you require. The only time a heavier rod has an advantage in playing a fish is from a boat, especially if a big fish goes under the boat, as it's much harder to use the full power of a rod in those circumstances but even then it's pretty marginal.

Being a boat fisher, it's definitely a big factor for me. And the main reason for that is that if I am pulling a team of 3 wets, I'll have a full 10 feet between the top dropper knot and the tail fly. A big fish on the tail that gets under the boat and sulks needs to be levered out, and a 10 foot 7-weight rod will do that miles better than a 10 foot 5-weight. You try to dig the fish out on the 5-weight and it just bends, and bends more, until you have three quarters of a circle in your hand, and the fish is still under the boat. And I say that, having spent much of this season fishing a team of 3 flies with a 10 ft 5-weight! 🤪
 

loxie

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Being a boat fisher, it's definitely a big factor for me. And the main reason for that is that if I am pulling a team of 3 wets, I'll have a full 10 feet between the top dropper knot and the tail fly. A big fish on the tail that gets under the boat and sulks needs to be levered out, and a 10 foot 7-weight rod will do that miles better than a 10 foot 5-weight. You try to dig the fish out on the 5-weight and it just bends, and bends more, until you have three quarters of a circle in your hand, and the fish is still under the boat. And I say that, having spent much of this season fishing a team of 3 flies with a 10 ft 5-weight! 🤪
Yes that's the problem. You simply cannot use much of the power in a rod in those circumstances and it's amazing how often a fish does it. A friend of mine was struggling with a big salmon in June that was determined to sulk under the boat and he was using a 10' 7wt and a single fly and he knows what he is doing!!
 

Cap'n Fishy

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Ah, right :)

Rod length is also misunderstood. People often think that a longer rod will land a fish faster/easier. But it can be the opposite. With a longer rod the fish has more leverage against the angler; the angler is on the wrong end of the lever, he's got mechanical disadvantage.

I cringe when I see people playing a big fish by holding the blank with their left hand a foot above handle to reduce the leverage and get two hands in play. But they've just created a point force on the blank that is now acting as a fulcrum and the full bend of the rod into the butt no longer works. Better to put your left hand behind the reel if that's what you need to do. Hence 'fighting butt'.

You are talking about something different to the odd occasion when I bring my line hand up to help out (some folk are left-handed - best to talk about rod hand and line hand, eh? 😜). If I am playing a fish with a single-handed rod, the fish is pulling on one end of the lever. The fulcrum is kind of where my index finger is, no? And the rest of my hand is providing the counter-balance... just a couple of inches on my side of the fulcrum, compared to 9 feet or so on the fish's side of the fulcrum. If it's a long fight and my left hand it getting tired and sore, as a result of being such a short lever, then bringing my right hand up and creating a new fulcrum a foot or so up the rod instantly eases the pressure on my rod hand. It's nothing to do with bringing the fish in quicker - just easing pressure on the rod hand. It definitely works! (y)
 

Cap'n Fishy

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Yes that's the problem. You simply cannot use much of the power in a rod in those circumstances and it's amazing how often a fish does it. A friend of mine was struggling with a big salmon in June that was determined to sulk under the boat and he was using a 10' 7wt and a single fly and he knows what he is doing!!

Aye, well, I'm saying the 10 ft 5-weight ends up as three-quarters of a circle. I've had my 10 ft 7-weight in the shape of three-quarters of a circle, and looking at it and wondering if it is going to snap before the fish comes out from under the boat. 🤪

But I guess it's a bit niche for most on here... :whistle:
 

tenet

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IMG_20211026_125326676.jpg

IMG_20211026_125326676.jpgNot one of Loxies but a BW zoo creature on a at 5 floater.
 

dave b

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This is a picture taken on the Avon, size 18 fly 0.14 tippet using a fast action 9ft 4# weight. It's a good trout and was hooked down the run between the weed beds. If I'd been using my 8ft 6in Loop Cross 3# with the same tippet, I wouldn't have had the control to stop or turn the fish and prevent it getting in the weed beds. Putting it simply the Loop has too much flex.

The point I'm making is that it's not as simple as you can apply the same pressure with any rod, you still have to choose the right rod for the application which I've maintained through my posts.

Could I have got away with a 5#? Others do without problems despite using small flies. It's not always about how light you can fish, sometimes it's more of a case of knowing what you can get away with and taking advantage of it.



Maxia action.jpg
 

Just the buzzer

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Just to be clear here , I’m not a new angler and have fished for many years and used to fish every week with a club ( even won a competition or two) .

Now the reason I want to change down in size is due to some shoulder and lower back pain which unfortunately may be permanent but that’s life eh.

I had a couple of days fishing using a Hardy Zephrus Ultralite in a 9ft for a 5# and caught 7 trout in the first day with the biggest that day being 6lb 7oz and the rod handled it perfectly well ( although it was a good tussle).

Now maybe it was just the enjoyment of using a new rod but it did feel a much lighter set up than my usual set up.

Normally my fishing days last no more than about 5 hours due to the fatigue/pain but I still enjoy it very much

Now this is where the controversy comes in…..I have been watching some videos where the angler states that on a still water there is absolutely no reason why anyone needs to use 6/7/8 weight lines ( I’m not saying he is right or wrong I’m just stating what he said) this guy was using 2/3/4 weight lines and catching & landing all the fish with consummate ease.
I obviously understand you need to maybe rethink fly size & tippets etc and how you actually play fish on lighter set up’s but essentially this was the reason for asking the question.

Again thanks to everyone for putting their obvious experience on the post because as far as I’m concerned every days a school day and I can lear new things.

tight lines everyone 🎣
 

tenet

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Just a thought re your shoulder pain. If you can get hold of a Barrion SLX line or any spey profile trout line then you can roll cast a fair distance without the need to overhead cast. Alternatively as mentioned up thread a switch type setup or extension handle to a trout rod.
 

PaulD

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Now this is where the controversy comes in…..I have been watching some videos where the angler states that on a still water there is absolutely no reason why anyone needs to use 6/7/8 weight lines ( I’m not saying he is right or wrong I’m just stating what he said) this guy was using 2/3/4 weight lines and catching & landing all the fish with consummate ease.
During the 80s I was heavily involved with fishing the reservoirs from rudder controlled, drifting boats, using Steve Parton 'General' and 'Imperator' 10ft rods - AFTM 9/11 and 11/13, with appropriate shooting heads and lead lines. I'm not a big bloke but I was in my 30s and fit and strong, but no matter how effective the methodology was, a day's fishing was hard work, very hard work. Today I couldn't do it, physically or mentally.

Today, I'm more enamoured with fishing an 8ft 9", 3wt with nymphs, emergers and dry flies from my float tube. Today, I lack the will and ability to spend days on big waters, fishing deep with my 80s tackle. I still catch a good number of fish, some good sized but I'm not going to encounter the grown on browns of Rutland Water. I am however, pleased to be able to continue fishing.
 

steve collyer

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Whilst I agree largely with what's been said, I would add that in a decent breeze anything under a #5 can be a real struggle to cast with. The lighter rods can pose a bit of a danger to your health (or at least your ears & neck!) when using heavily weighted flies as well.

I wouldn't fish a stillwater for rainbows with anything lighter than a #5 for these two reasons alone, but then there are a lot better casters out there than me.
 

bonefishblues

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I used to quite happily use my Scott 882 (8ft 8" 2-weight) Powr-Ply for the rainbows at Avon Springs donkeys ago when I used to fish there. I never caught anything over about 7 1/2 or so, but it was as happy as Larry with those.

(Christ, donkeys is last Century, I realise :cry: )
 

ejw

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No problem fishing with light rods, I have a fair collection of them, each to suit my particular style of fishing. For large reservoirs a 4wt or 5wt in 9' to 11' with a single fly or a maximum of 2 (tied NZ style). Only fish that I have struggled with was a 12lb Pike that hugged the bottom, that took 34 seconds to land ! I tend to video a lot of my catch, thats how I know the time, it just felt like more !. The 5wt 10' rod did hoop, but with enough pressure it did move it.

Just to show, here is one of a good Rainbow on an 11' 3wt. Bends to the butt, not a chance of escaping !
 

clag

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There seems to be a lot of confusion on here between the functionality the OP requested for the waters and styles he fishes, and personal preference.

The exam question is could I fish nymphs and dries for Rainbows in small waters with an #4. I have been for a decade. Over the last two years I have increasingly fished the same waters with 7.5 #3. So the answer to the exam question is yes you absolutely can and no it won’t make any material difference to playing the target fish if you play it and not the other way round. I will say the 8.5’ #4 lets me stand a little further back and gives me more reach on the lift, but that’s a different point.

To the op try a #4 out and enjoy it.

Regards

CLaG
 

Just the buzzer

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There seems to be a lot of confusion on here between the functionality the OP requested for the waters and styles he fishes, and personal preference.

The exam question is could I fish nymphs and dries for Rainbows in small waters with an #4. I have been for a decade. Over the last two years I have increasingly fished the same waters with 7.5 #3. So the answer to the exam question is yes you absolutely can and no it won’t make any material difference to playing the target fish if you play it and not the other way round. I will say the 8.5’ #4 lets me stand a little further back and gives me more reach on the lift, but that’s a different point.

To the op try a #4 out and enjoy it.

Regards

CLaG
Thanks for taking the time to reply….and I like the post👍😀
 

Just the buzzer

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This is a picture taken on the Avon, size 18 fly 0.14 tippet using a fast action 9ft 4# weight. It's a good trout and was hooked down the run between the weed beds. If I'd been using my 8ft 6in Loop Cross 3# with the same tippet, I wouldn't have had the control to stop or turn the fish and prevent it getting in the weed beds. Putting it simply the Loop has too much flex.

The point I'm making is that it's not as simple as you can apply the same pressure with any rod, you still have to choose the right rod for the application which I've maintained through my posts.

Could I have got away with a 5#? Others do without problems despite using small flies. It's not always about how light you can fish, sometimes it's more of a case of knowing what you can get away with and taking advantage of it.



View attachment 45012
What a great picture
 

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