5 Weight shootout by Yellowstone Angler;

Gdog

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I'd love to see a shakey or maxcatch mixed in with the herd, all white washed and identical fittings???

Al
That would be interesting for sure. Yellowstone Angler usually includes a "cheaper" rod, the Echo Base in its various weights has been in a few shootouts, these rods get good comments but are well down the table in overall rating.

The 2020 5 weight rod review has a disproportionate amount of expensive rods with fewer middle of the range rods. Rarlier 5 weight shootouts had more middle of the range rods, these guys now include more of the expensive rods as there are bigger margins to be made. Why don't we petition Yellowstone Angler and ask for a shootout with rods under 100 quid. Realistically I can't see them including Maxcatch rods as they do not include rods sold just through the internet, tackle has to be available for sale through tackle shops to be included in their shootout.
 

Uncas

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That would be interesting for sure. Yellowstone Angler usually includes a "cheaper" rod, the Echo Base in its various weights has been in a few shootouts, these rods get good comments but are well down the table in overall rating.

The 2020 5 weight rod review has a disproportionate amount of expensive rods with fewer middle of the range rods. Rarlier 5 weight shootouts had more middle of the range rods, these guys now include more of the expensive rods as there are bigger margins to be made. Why don't we petition Yellowstone Angler and ask for a shootout with rods under 100 quid. Realistically I can't see them including Maxcatch rods as they do not include rods sold just through the internet, tackle has to be available for sale through tackle shops to be included in their shootout.
I can not see the point in testing crap, or are quality rods a dirty word these day's
 

kingf000

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I can not see the point in testing crap, or are quality rods a dirty word these day's
Two things: one is that a result, however biased, from these shootouts is that there is often little difference between a $300 and a $1000 rod, despite the hype the rod makers give them. The second is that, at least in the UK, most rods sold are in the low/mid price range, and so what alot of people want to know is which of those rods within this price range are decent and which should be avoided. I'm sure the Yellowstone reviews focus on the more expensive rods because (a) reputedly a lot of american anglers only go out a few times a year and a high priced rod is a status symbol and (b) they make more money from selling the higher priced rods.
 

arawa

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Car magazines rarely compare Range Rovers and Dacia Dusters in the same test because people are looking for different things.
Mind, I have seen a test with the off-road capability of a Range Rover compared with that of a Panda 4x4, and the Panda did pretty well :)
 

noel

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Car magazines rarely compare Range Rovers and Dacia Dusters in the same test because people are looking for different things.
Mind, I have seen a test with the off-road capability of a Range Rover compared with that of a Panda 4x4, and the Panda did pretty well :)
The Panda got through areas the Range Rover got stuck in .
 

kingf000

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(a) reputedly a lot of american anglers only go out a few times a year and a high priced rod is a status symbol and.......
as opposed to the great outdoorsy puddle fishers in the U.K... 😂
[/QUOTE]
May be true. In the US in 2017, 50% of fly fishers earn more than $75,000 to spend on rods and 40.7% fished only 1-3 times a year, 32% 4-11 times. Don't know what it is like in the UK.
 

sean freeman

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Would imagine yank fishers get out more due to the vast amount of public land. Also 75,000 dollars isn’t a great wage in some parts of America especially when you consider health insurance is required for basic healthcare.

I’d say there is still a large demographic in the U.K. buying expensive gear as it’s still on sale here. I love my custom glass rods which are beautifully made and great for small streams but pricey. I also love my Vision rods which are pretty cheap but vision know how to make a rod with a nice action. Price doesn’t come into it for me, if I like a rod I’ll buy it and in my opinion quality is remembered long after price is forgotten.
 

kingf000

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Would imagine yank fishers get out more due to the vast amount of public land. Also 75,000 dollars isn’t a great wage in some parts of America especially when you consider health insurance is required for basic healthcare.

I’d say there is still a large demographic in the U.K. buying expensive gear as it’s still on sale here. I love my custom glass rods which are beautifully made and great for small streams but pricey. I also love my Vision rods which are pretty cheap but vision know how to make a rod with a nice action. Price doesn’t come into it for me, if I like a rod I’ll buy it and in my opinion quality is remembered long after price is forgotten.
Those figures came from an accurate, US government source so I assume they are right. Also most Americans earning $75000 probably get their family health care paid for them by their employers.

It is up to the individual what rod they buy and like, but it is notable from the shootout that rods costing $300 often come out scoring higher than rods costing 2x or even 3x that. Me, I've been designing and building my own rods in lock down, so looking forward to getting back fishing to try them out.
 

black and silver

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The Panda got through areas the Range Rover got stuck in .
Is any of it relivant, it's not as if any of the range rovers will actually see a puddle never mind the kind of terain they were tested on, only rought terrian they'll see is the great british pot holes and speed bumps.
 

tangled

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All the stats work I did over in the costs of rods thread from the Yellowstone and Trident rod tests showed that there no correlation at all between the price of a rod and it's performance. That's repeated in reviews in T&S and other mags. Some expensive rods were poor and some cheaper rods were good.

The only correlation I found was between price and cosmetics - fixtures and fittings. And then it's not much as there's not many fittings on a fishing rod And all of them are perfectly functional.

Nothing wrong with owning an expensive rod, they're all nice things to have, but there's no point fooling ourselves that just because they're expensive, they're better because that isn't necessarily true.
 

PaulD

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The second is that, at least in the UK, most rods sold are in the low/mid price range, and so what alot of people want to know is which of those rods within this price range are decent and which should be avoided.
Could you name or suggest a low/mid price range rod in the UK that should be 'avoided'? Is there such a thing?

A 10ft 7wt, Shakespeare Agility 2 is currently available from John Norris for £55.99, the Greys GR20 of the same size is £76.50, the Guideline Stoked is £164.99. These are cheap rods, what criteria would you suggest to establish whether any should be avoided? Or is the 'guidance' going to be based on, 'Is the Guideline 3 times better than the Shakespeare because it's 3 times the price?'
 
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kingf000

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All the stats work I did over in the costs of rods thread from the Yellowstone and Trident rod tests showed that there no correlation at all between the price of a rod and it's performance. That's repeated in reviews in T&S and other mags. Some expensive rods were poor and some cheaper rods were good.

The only correlation I found was between price and cosmetics - fixtures and fittings. And then it's not much as there's not many fittings on a fishing rod And all of them are perfectly functional.

Nothing wrong with owning an expensive rod, they're all nice things to have, but there's no point fooling ourselves that just because they're expensive, they're better because that isn't necessarily true.
From what I've learnt from looking into designing my own rods, more expensive rods tend to have lighter fittings, so come out weighing less. However, the difference in the wholesale price of light fittings vs heavier ones is about £30. So why not put lighter ones on the lower range rods? Because they wouldn't sell as many expensive rods.
 

kingf000

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Could you name or suggest a low/mid price range rod in the UK that should be 'avoided'? Is there such a thing?

A 10ft 7wt, Shakespeare Agility 2 is currently available from John Norris for £55.99, the Greys GR20 of the same size is £76.50, the Guideline Stoked is £164.99. These are cheap rods, what criteria would you suggest to establish whether any should be avoided? Or is the 'guidance' going to be based on, 'Is the Guideline 3 times better than the Shakespeare because it's 3 times the price?'
I don't know, because I haven't seen a shootout of these. Personally, given nothing else, I would initially narrow down the field based upon the weight of the rod, the lighter the better as you should get less tired using it. The shakespeare rod at 9' 6wt is 3.7oz, the Greys GR20 is 3.5oz, the Guideline Stoked is 3.4oz, given that these are the published weights which may not be accurate!. So would you pay an extra £109 for 0.3 oz less? The Sage LL weighs 2.6 oz and costs £799!
 

tangled

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I might be making this up but I think the Greys GR50 9’ #5 was 2.8oz. And cost about £150. You could get them up to last year for about £80. It's still a very good rod.
 

kingf000

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I might be making this up but I think the Greys GR50 9’ #5 was 2.8oz. And cost about £150. You could get them up to last year for about £80. It's still a very good rod.
According to my old Sportfish catalogue, the Greys GR50 9' #5 weighed 3.4 oz, the #6: 3.5 oz. I used to have a 9'6'' #7 and just didn't like the action - personal preference.
 

dave b

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The fact that Winston Air, the Scott G and the Sage LL were in the bottom 3 of the presentation table speaks a thousand words. The review isn't about fishing rods, what's nice to use, the rods that are forgiving allowing you to use ultra light tippets and small hooks without fear of cracking off or pulling the hook out. It's simply about distance and accuracy with 2 lines with specific tapers which IMO suits some rods but works against others painting an incredibly inaccurate picture.

I'm a big fan of the Hardy Zephrus range they are proper fishing rods that not only cast well they also have feel, finesse and are a joy to play typical UK sized trout on, not the standard 12-16 inch rainbows and browns common in the USA.

I've owned a number of high end rods and while some cast and fish better than others I'm more interested in how a rod fishes in the real world, i.e. tippet protection and how it bends and feels with a fish on the other end. Casting is only a small part of the equation and except at long range or in extreme conditions an average caster can make a £100 rod work as well as a £600 rod particularly when fishing a river where the general cast is 10-20 yds max.

Matching the rod to the line plays a big part and can transform what seems like a dud rod to one that can be a joy to use. I do like the reviews but IMO you are better off talking to anglers in the real world to find out their thoughts on how a rod fishes on the water.
 

kingf000

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The fact that Winston Air, the Scott G and the Sage LL were in the bottom 3 of the presentation table speaks a thousand words. The review isn't about fishing rods, what's nice to use, the rods that are forgiving allowing you to use ultra light tippets and small hooks without fear of cracking off or pulling the hook out. It's simply about distance and accuracy with 2 lines with specific tapers which IMO suits some rods but works against others painting an incredibly inaccurate picture.

I'm a big fan of the Hardy Zephrus range they are proper fishing rods that not only cast well they also have feel, finesse and are a joy to play typical UK sized trout on, not the standard 12-16 inch rainbows and browns common in the USA.

I've owned a number of high end rods and while some cast and fish better than others I'm more interested in how a rod fishes in the real world, i.e. tippet protection and how it bends and feels with a fish on the other end. Casting is only a small part of the equation and except at long range or in extreme conditions an average caster can make a £100 rod work as well as a £600 rod particularly when fishing a river where the general cast is 10-20 yds max.

Matching the rod to the line plays a big part and can transform what seems like a dud rod to one that can be a joy to use. I do like the reviews but IMO you are better off talking to anglers in the real world to find out their thoughts on how a rod fishes on the water.
I agree with you. But as we see on this forum, you ask for a recommendation for a rod and you get lots of different suggestions so IMO it doesn't help. Everyone is different. As you find with the Zephrus, you like the range and it suits you. I haven't tried the Zephrus but for my fishing, I like the Jet. Also when I look at the tables I ignore score for the long rang casting, as on the rivers I fish, I'd be casting well onto the opposite bank or round the bend.
 
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