Achieving a crisp stop

fishing hobo

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One of the things you quickly learn as a teacher is that what you are saying in your head may make a great deal of sense . . . but the blank expression on the faces of a goodly proportion of a class of 10 year olds quickly suggests that the vocabulary being used isn't projecting the message.

It's the same with analogies. very few people paint ceilings with brushes, mostly preferring the roller and increasingly fewer people had experience of flicking ink soaked blotting paper off rulers during their school days.

Probably the worse crime is 'Instructor Speak' - the, "I have no foundation in scientific knowledge but I'll try to impress you with quasi-scientific words and phrases which actually mean less than nothing in practical terms."
Hence you need different phrases/analogies to use to mean one thing as one person might understand a concet presented one way but another might not eg using the bicycle and brake analogy I used earlier, if you have never cycled, the person won't know what I am talking about. A wide casting arc won't be understood by beginners, most will understand windshield wiper or rainbow shape to describe the action.
 

Rhithrogena

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Actually a crisp stop isn't what you REALLY want anyhow 😱😳😲
It's a rapid but smooth deceleration and follow through that's needed.
You'll notice that any type of throw needs a follow through. You want to start slow, accelerate to move the load and slow down to launch it and follow through in the direction of launch.. Trendy casters call it drift. It's important for two reasons;
1) It smoothes the 'stop'
2) It allows extra reach for a long casting stroke for good linespeed (=distance).

Slow, quick, slow.....
Funny how a couple of whiskies make it all seem so clear 😆😆
 

Rhithrogena

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Another ponder - the Belgian or oval cast, a continual ovalised circulating movement without a 'stop'.
Nah, there is a 'stop'; you can't come forwards without stopping going backwards...it's just a curved follow through.
 

geenomad

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Actually a crisp stop isn't what you REALLY want anyhow 😱😳😲
It's a rapid but smooth deceleration and follow through that's needed.
You'll notice that any type of throw needs a follow through. You want to start slow, accelerate to move the load and slow down to launch it and follow through in the direction of launch.. Trendy casters call it drift. It's important for two reasons;
1) It smoothes the 'stop'
2) It allows extra reach for a long casting stroke for good linespeed (=distance).
Agreed Rich. My instinct was to "tell the truth" and say that the crisp stop is taught as a way of getting folks not to keep going, over rotate and produce another ineffectual rainbow. SLPs work.

The crisp stop is also part of the rod loading/spring mythology/nonsense but damned if I'm going there again. :)

Hope the OP isn't confused by any of that.

Cheers
Mark
 
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Whinging pom

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Gently drip feeding thoughts without the full challenging force of delivering absolutes is a very organic way to absorb information


I believe the OP’s stage of development is best served to concentrate on a strong clear, simple, foundation casting stroke, that is consistent/repeatable.
Then can start building and adding extras.
Simple and clear.

I think, the drip fed extras are a very organic way to absorb a layer of confusion and doubt.

Confusing; like many of the analogies on here that make perfect sense to the originators.
OP; “ok so he wants me to stop my rod like I’m flicking sh*t off a stick?!!”
“Am I flicking it so it just barely falls off?? Am I flicking it foot, yard, across the room or trying to wang it straight through the window??!!”

( imagine giving 30 strangers sticks and little bowls of **** and give them that simple advice, you’d have 30 personality based interpretations and utter pandemonium! Then give them paint rollers and a ceiling to paint. Then tell them actually it’s not a stop it’s deceleration and a follow through!).

Ive read back through this thread and no one has mentioned the word Elbow.

Read the ops reactions ! Do they read like someone whose getting it any clearer or does he sound more confused?


I’m beginning to think that a good thread would be ‘Really well meaning yet unhelpfu confusing advice I was given when I was trying to learn to cast’.

mine would have to be Joan Wulffs power snap.

Pom
 
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geenomad

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I believe the OP’s stage of development is best served to concentrate on a strong clear, simple, foundation casting stroke, that is consistent/repeatable.
Then can start building and adding extras.
Simple and clear.


I’m beginning to think that a good thread would be ‘Really well meaning yet unhelpfu confusing advice I was given when I was trying to learn to cast’.
For the first quoted section of your reply I would agree and hence the last sentence of my earlier comments. If trying to make a crisp stop helps - OP included - then I'd say keep at it.

For the second bit I would naughtily suggest it could be part of a never ending thread, many pointless arguments included, simply entitled "BS in Fly Casting - or Why Lefty Was Right about Saleyards."

A friend pointed out to me, last year I think, the virtue of what Terry Pratchett et al called "Lies to Children" in The Science of Discworld. Sometimes fallacy is useful when the whole truth would be unhelpful. The crisp stop is a useful fallacy - imho of course. :)

Cheers
Mark
 

Tangled

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The crisp stop is also part of the rod loading/spring mythology/nonsense.

Hope the OP isn't confused by any of that.

If you're really hoping not to confuse by saying these things you're going to have to explain!

The accelerate to a stop is part of every casting instructors repertoire and is universally taught. The received wisdom is that it's the stop that creates the loop without which we have your 'rainbow' cast, so?
 

PaulD

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What? You're telling me the hours I've spent perfecting the Cheese and Onion Cast, with its refined Cheese Puff Loops and acute Twiglet Haul has all been wasted?
 

bobmiddlepoint

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Actually opening a bag of crisps is not unlike casting.
You need finely controlled and timed power to open the packet. Not enough and the packet stays closed, too much or maintained for too long and everything goes everywhere. Just as in casting high winds make it problematic. Opening a tube of Pringles on the other hand is a piece of cake, there is no skill in it and is on a par with casting with a fixed spool reel.
 

weiliwen

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Great post. My sister is a beginning fly fisher, and she's very frustrated that her fly, leader, and a good bit of line collapses in a tangle about 10 feet in front of her. I tried, without much success, to explain to her that for the "spring" that a fly rod really is to function correctly, the back and forward casts have to end with a crisp stop.
Of course, she also has issues with feeling the fly reach the end of its backwards journey, and tends to start the forward cast too early, also contributing to her problems and adding wind knots to them.
 

fishing hobo

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Great post. My sister is a beginning fly fisher, and she's very frustrated that her fly, leader, and a good bit of line collapses in a tangle about 10 feet in front of her. I tried, without much success, to explain to her that for the "spring" that a fly rod really is to function correctly, the back and forward casts have to end with a crisp stop.
Of course, she also has issues with feeling the fly reach the end of its backwards journey, and tends to start the forward cast too early, also contributing to her problems and adding wind knots to them.
You are opening a do not open box when you mention the rod as a "spring" 😁
 

Tangled

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So now that it's been raised, it needs to be explained....

When we move the rod forward or backwards pulling the line, the rod bends because we're applying force to it ie loading it. 'Load' is another trigger word here. The word 'load' is accurate; it just means applying a force but it's a 'loaded' term here because people jump to the conclusion that you mean it like loading a spring, which isn't how the rod works.

When we stop the cast the rod straightens causing the spring effect. But the major use of the rod is as a lever not a spring. The spring effect is small but it is useful, not least because it gives the casting action some feel and protects our joints from shocks.

Sorry.
 

geenomad

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A fly rod is a flexible (3rd class) lever. Fly rods as springs is not a useful fallacy.

Already suffering poster's remorse for saying that.....again.:) 😬

Cheers
Mark
 

Bobfly2

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Catapult cast, rod hand does not move, entirely a straightening of the bent rod.
 

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