America’s Cup - NZ

Reg Wyatt

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Watched one of the races today Luke. It was between the UK and NZ boat and from a few days ago I believe. The NZ boat actually lapped the UK boat and was at times going three and four times as fast! Never seen anything like it and didn't understand what was happening at all. The boats are obviously very similar but this particular race was a complete mis match with the Kiwis totally dominant - embarrassingly so. The crews are also pretty similar in their expertise but this race was lost before the start.
What I couldn't understand is why the UK boat seemed unable to change anything and quickly accepted it was going to lose badly? Are they not able to change things or use their racing knowledge/expertise, or once out on the water they just have to accept they've made the wrong decisions beforehand? No matter who wins or loses this was an awful 'race.' The other boats look a little more evenly matched so why is the UK boat so slow?
I'm sure the main reason to have the same design guidelines/budgets etc is to have closer racing and the winners decided more through seamanship etc.
Perhaps I've read this wrong and it's all gamesmanship ahead of the real stuff?
Very confused Luke but don't forget I'm old!

Reg Wyatt
 

Dingbat

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Watched one of the races today Luke. It was between the UK and NZ boat and from a few days ago I believe. The NZ boat actually lapped the UK boat and was at times going three and four times as fast! Never seen anything like it and didn't understand what was happening at all. The boats are obviously very similar but this particular race was a complete mis match with the Kiwis totally dominant - embarrassingly so. The crews are also pretty similar in their expertise but this race was lost before the start.
What I couldn't understand is why the UK boat seemed unable to change anything and quickly accepted it was going to lose badly? Are they not able to change things or use their racing knowledge/expertise, or once out on the water they just have to accept they've made the wrong decisions beforehand? No matter who wins or loses this was an awful 'race.' The other boats look a little more evenly matched so why is the UK boat so slow?
I'm sure the main reason to have the same design guidelines/budgets etc is to have closer racing and the winners decided more through seamanship etc.
Perhaps I've read this wrong and it's all gamesmanship ahead of the real stuff?
Very confused Luke but don't forget I'm old!

Reg Wyatt

I think the British boat has some issues and for the most part they were happy to get round the course in one piece. Whilst the starts were sometime aggressive - but not necessarily successfully so, the tacks and jibes weren't and that suggests a boat problem.

Can it be that the British boat is the only one without a Kiwi skipper?
 

Reg Wyatt

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Well in the race I watched today the British boat had severe issues, going backwards at a rate of knots the biggest! The thing I couldn't get was that the crew seemed to accept very quickly that the race was over and they couldn't compete and were unable to change anything by using their sailing skills or seamanship? They'd arrived at the start of an F1 race driving a ford Cortina and no matter how good a driver they had, there was no keeping up with the Mercedes. Getting Lewis Hamilton to drive their Cortina wouldn't have made much difference.
After many years of planning and hundreds of millions spent, I was hoping that at least they'd all be in the same motors?
Me and the old boys in the twelve metre Constellation from forty years ago could have given Team UK a run for it's money today!
Hope they improve.....quickly

Reg Wyatt
 

JayP

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Sign me up. I used to keep a boat in the Menai Strait and windsurfed for most of my life, having been an RYA instructor. Did a bit of speed sailing (windsurfing), getting to within 5 kts of the then world record. I'm looking to buy a small boat next year to keep at Chichester Yacht Club.

I take my hat off to all who compete and do their best, but I feel with the Brits, it's a bit like Alex Thomson in the Vendee, something always seems to go wrong.
.
Did you ever sail at West Kirby? Went down the wall once on a Sputnik 270 and got taken out by a gust, hooked in catapult and straight through the sail. Stuck to wave sailing after that far safer 😂
 

green man

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Did you ever sail at West Kirby?

Yeah, that was where I did most of my speed sailing, with guys like Farrell O'Shea. I used a Jimmy Lewis speed needle most of the time. Then, like you, switched to mostly wave sailing, with various RRDs. I had a friend with a Sputnik - very unforgiving, scared me to death. We sound like we belong to the same era!
 

JayP

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Yeah, that was where I did most of my speed sailing, with guys like Farrell O'Shea. I used a Jimmy Lewis speed needle most of the time. Then, like you, switched to mostly wave sailing, with various RRDs. I had a friend with a Sputnik - very unforgiving, scared me to death. We sound like we belong to the same era!
If I was dialled in the Sputnik was an incredible board, super fast and responsive and crazy fast gybe's, off your game and it would just dump you in the sea. Had some great fun on it in Tarifa!
 

williegunn

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Luke, is there coverage of the Sydney -Hobart race with you/ It looks as if it will be a quick one the winds are strong and favourable so far.
 

williegunn

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green man

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Tasmania in lockdown. I think it has been cancelled.

Might also have something to do with what the crews get up to in certain parts of Kings Cross, before the race. ;)

Just watched the World Series 'highlights' on BBC. Terrible coverage. Maybe I'm biased because we're doing so badly, but I doubt I'll be watching any more of it.
.
 
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LukeNZ

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I see that team NZ are letting the secret out - I timed them at over 100km/hr. weeks before the first regatta on my way back from Waiheke Is. I made it at about 110km/hr. between 2 points that Google maps showed the distance of. Given the parallax error relative to my position, could be upto 5km/hr. faster, rather than slower... It had a very high pitched whistling noise.


Defenders fire shot across bow of challengers with training claim that obliterates record speed at recent regatta.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/ameri...w-zealand-smash-100kmh-barrier?cid=app-iPhone

🙃
 
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Reg Wyatt

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Amazing technology. Ross Brawn said nowadays he worries that formula 1 is 90% car and 10% driver. I don't think this is a good thing at all and it has inevitably crept into all top class racing. I want to see driving ability or in this case good seamanship win races not computer programmes. That said, it is very exciting and I watch with interest but I want more human involvement.

Reg Wyatt
 

williegunn

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Dingbat

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The French could always design good boats just couldn't sail / fight them. Go back to Nelson's time a lot of the British fleet were captured French Ships and it was claimed they sailed better than the British ships of the time.

Well, there's the Fastnet race 2019: Apart from Wizard’s win in IRC Overall and Zero, and USA 25555 Rambler 88’s monohull line honours win, it has been a near clean sweep for French entries in this year’s race. (https://www.yachtingworld.com/fastn...ms-overall-prize-french-crews-dominate-122814)

Then there is the Vendée Globe which is rarely not won by a Frenchman.

Without casting aspersions on the British navy of the time, what Patrick O'Brian aficionados tend to forget is that the French revolution brought with it a purge of experienced commissioned officers and the installation of political "advisers" aboard many ships, similarly to **** Germany (think the brownshirt in Das Boot) and Communist Russia - and they still managed to be a worthy opponent of the British.
 

williegunn

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Well, there's the Fastnet race 2019: Apart from Wizard’s win in IRC Overall and Zero, and USA 25555 Rambler 88’s monohull line honours win, it has been a near clean sweep for French entries in this year’s race. (https://www.yachtingworld.com/fastn...ms-overall-prize-french-crews-dominate-122814)

Then there is the Vendée Globe which is rarely not won by a Frenchman.

Without casting aspersions on the British navy of the time, what Patrick O'Brian aficionados tend to forget is that the French revolution brought with it a purge of experienced commissioned officers and the installation of political "advisers" aboard many ships, similarly to **** Germany (think the brownshirt in Das Boot) and Communist Russia - and they still managed to be a worthy opponent of the British.
I’ve never read Patrick O Brian, more of a Hornblower man, but could you point me in a direction of any French Victories? My understanding is they spent most of the war in port.
 

LukeNZ

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Amazing technology. Ross Brawn said nowadays he worries that formula 1 is 90% car and 10% driver. I don't think this is a good thing at all and it has inevitably crept into all top class racing. I want to see driving ability or in this case good seamanship win races not computer programmes. That said, it is very exciting and I watch with interest but I want more human involvement.

Reg Wyatt

There surely must be more human and race involvement for you now Reg! The UK team beat everyone today, and by a good margin and in only 14 knot breeze!

It is still anyone’s cup.

Provided either NZ or UK win, I will be happy. It is quite nice having 2 horses in the race!
 
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Reg Wyatt

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There surely must be more human and race involvement for you now Reg! The UK team beat everyone today, and by a good margin and in only 14 knot breeze!

It is still anyone’s cup.

Provided either NZ or UK win, I will be happy. It is quite nice having 2 horses in the race!
Well I certainly wish I was there to watch it Luke. In fact I wish I was there anyway! I was amazed to see the Kiwi boat capsize at such astonishing speed yet recover so quickly as if nothing had happened - the strength of that boat must be incredible as must be the crew.
I think the NZ boat and crew will take some beating but you never know. Very exciting.

Reg Wyatt
 

skyeman1

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Well I certainly wish I was there to watch it Luke. In fact I wish I was there anyway! I was amazed to see the Kiwi boat capsize at such astonishing speed yet recover so quickly as if nothing had happened - the strength of that boat must be incredible as must be the crew.
I think the NZ boat and crew will take some beating but you never know. Very exciting.

Reg Wyatt
This is terrible, normally I would now be on my way to NZ as in each of the last 20 years. B****r this virus for screwing it all up, probably next year too.
 

skyeman1

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Do you go there to fish skyeman?

Reg Wyatt
Yes, every year, but the sailing would have been an inescapable diversion this time. I fear that my fishing in NZ may now be over, ach well, it was great while it lasted. Even more regrettable is that the time spent with family and friends there is also most likely over. B****y virus.
 

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