Anyone fish streamers for salmon?

bobmiddlepoint

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It can badly disturb a pool spoiling it for anyone else fishing it down conventionally and quietly with smaller flies.( see the post by bob m above)

The story (true) above about a river somewhere in the Far North may have been fueled a touch of sour grapes from the following ghillies.
I don't doubt the Sunray over used in low water does disturb the fish but at the same time it takes a lot. So which is it, too deadly or too frightening :unsure:


Andy
 

fruinfisher

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I was was thinking more of low settled conditions. I don’t think it would be disturbing in high water though, or even low water on a big river like the Tay . To me it’s a bit like going down to fish a pool in low water only to find some fecker snap-t casting his way down it . Fishing’s about stealth and that’s very hard with a 6” lure , stripping it through the pool and all the extra casting involved , usually with short shooting heads which don’t exactly have a delicate presentation
 

Laxdale

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The story (true) above about a river somewhere in the Far North may have been fueled a touch of sour grapes from the following ghillies.
I don't doubt the Sunray over used in low water does disturb the fish but at the same time it takes a lot. So which is it, too deadly or too frightening :unsure:


Andy
That guy could have tied a rubber band on a hook and caught just after lock down. He just tried harder than the other ghillies.
When there are new fish appearing all the time it is harmless, but can feck up a pool of residents.
Putting a Sunray though a pool on Tuesday makes no difference from Wednesday.
It can make a difference on any given day though. Either by being fished by a messy angler or being dragged repeatedly over a lie.
A ghillie I know only allows a sunray in his pools (on mixed rod weeks) 30 minutes before lunch and again at 4.30pm until knocking off time. Free for all in the evenings.
 

rockslider

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hi,

my friends and i were on the River Finn last week and he stripped some big streamers across pools for trout and actually got some follows from salmon. was really cool. anyone else try this ?
yeah i use a large black leech pattern stripped fast on Cork rivers to good effect, started doing it for seatrout but salmon kept obliging! I never use traditional salmon flies, i get my share on nymphs and streamers!
 

williegunn

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On some rivers the Sunray is considered not quite the done thing by true sporting anglers.
On a river in the Far North once the lockdown was eased the ghillies were allowed onto the rotating beats. One ghillie in particular put in long hours and took many fish on the Sunray. The ghillies fishng the rotation behind him did less well and were heard to comment "that b4stard has Sunrayed everything and fecked it for us!"

I like Woolly Buggers and Clouser Minnows for salmon.


Andy
So where did the fish he had scared with the Collie Dog go? Back out to sea? Cause if the they had moved on upstream those following on would have caught them.

A Collie Dog fished sub surface is no worse than any other fly. Fished on a full floater it certainly can stir the fish up.
 

clag

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So where did the fish he had scared with the Collie Dog go? Back out to sea? Cause if the they had moved on upstream those following on would have caught them.

A Collie Dog fished sub surface is no worse than any other fly. Fished on a full floater it certainly can stir the fish up.
Many shallow clear rivers Dee, Oykel, Naver tend to request anglers use of the Collie is restricted to short bursts precisely becasue overuse of a fast stripped collie spooks the fish. The fish don't actually go anywhere they just go completley off the take and show signs of distress. It's a particular problem on the Dee because most beats are single bank. I remember watching one May afternoon a party of anglers on the opposite bank stripping collies continuously for several hours through a middle Dee pool - they caught nothing. When we came back in the evening as soon as the line landed on the pool the salmon jumped wildly everywhere up, down and across stream. I've seen this repeated a little too often but only when the offending rods have been stripping collies for long periods. I've not seen it when people have been swinging a fly even when the water is fished quite hard fished.

The above is illustrative of two things. Firstly, if a stripped Collie is going to work it does so quickly. There is no point in persevering with it. Secondly, bombarding salmon with a collie for long periods can absolutely ruin the fishing for others.

Regards

CLaG
 

charlieH

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Many shallow clear rivers Dee, Oykel, Naver tend to request anglers use of the Collie is restricted to short bursts precisely becasue overuse of a fast stripped collie spooks the fish. The fish don't actually go anywhere they just go completley off the take and show signs of distress.
Without taking the thread too far off course, do people think that a similar restriction should be placed on the Frances?
 

clag

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Without taking the thread too far off course, do people think that a similar restriction should be placed on the Frances?
My honest answer is I have never heard or been asked to restrict use of Francis flies but I shouldn't care because unlike Collies I can't catch or scare anything on them....now where is global authority on eveything salmo salar the Emperor? Perhaps he is too busy taking his Range Rover to the Garage to be fixed again? We await his counsel with reverance.

Regards

CLaG
 

speytime

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It might well be the case but I've seen to many jealous fishers over the years to put any faith in it, they don't catch so they do everything in there power to stop others catching.
The very same thing with pigeon racing all the folk that couldn't win tried to make rules to stop the winners winning, the useless racers ruined it in the end.

No only is your rod type being dictated on certain rivers now folk are trying to dictate the fly type?

Al
 

codyarrow

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Caught a few on Frances but they do not have the same magic that they do in other countries. Or at least for me they don't at least.
 

williegunn

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Many shallow clear rivers Dee, Oykel, Naver tend to request anglers use of the Collie is restricted to short bursts precisely becasue overuse of a fast stripped collie spooks the fish. The fish don't actually go anywhere they just go completley off the take and show signs of distress. It's a particular problem on the Dee because most beats are single bank. I remember watching one May afternoon a party of anglers on the opposite bank stripping collies continuously for several hours through a middle Dee pool - they caught nothing. When we came back in the evening as soon as the line landed on the pool the salmon jumped wildly everywhere up, down and across stream. I've seen this repeated a little too often but only when the offending rods have been stripping collies for long periods. I've not seen it when people have been swinging a fly even when the water is fished quite hard fished.

The above is illustrative of two things. Firstly, if a stripped Collie is going to work it does so quickly. There is no point in persevering with it. Secondly, bombarding salmon with a collie for long periods can absolutely ruin the fishing for others.

Regards

CLaG
Claggy, the fly is called the Frances after the lady who tied it I would have thought you would have known better.

On the post above you seem to be blaming all the ills of modern salmon fishing on the poor Collie dog.
Single bank beats unless properly gillied can be a nightmare and unfortunately many of the Middle Dee beats are not gillied ful time. Any gillie worth the title would not the party "dog" the water all afternoon.
Fishpal is also part of the problem, with their daily letting carry on. I know a party who took Park North for a week, they took the house at great expense, but the South Bank was let through fishpal and before the North bank got started, the fishpal rods, no doubt holding the "how to fish Park" instructions downloaded from the internet, you rember that, the prof fishes here etc, were already thrashing the lies, grab a quick sandwich and back out to the afternoon's pools.

Party leaders are also to blame and ought to step in to stop that kind of carry on. But many are desperate to get catch numbers up to ensure they fill their week the following year.

Many gillies will not let a Collie dog on the beat as you well know when you joined a party to fish a middle Spey beat. The same gillie is not keen on a Frances either.

Finally I now run a Discovery and have not been on-line as I'm fishing a Highland river, reasonably successfully but it has only been lightly fished this year.
 

williegunn

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And I almost forgot, Francis Grant in his book Dynamics of Salmon Fishing that you (used) to rave about tells everyone if they know a fish is there, batter it till it takes.
 

codyarrow

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And I almost forgot, Francis Grant in his book Dynamics of Salmon Fishing that you (used) to rave about tells everyone if they know a fish is there, batter it till it takes.
Been a few years since I read that - but memory telling me he only fished with a thread bare hairy mary? Could be wrong.
 

williegunn

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Been a few years since I read that - but memory telling me he only fished with a thread bare hairy mary? Could be wrong.
I thought it was a Willie Gunn with a tail,a drowned mouse, but he still continued casting at a fish for hours till he caught it.
 

loxie

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I quite like to back a pool up quickly with a smallish sunray then fish down with a wet fly. A big Frances fished at eye level can get the fish very spooked.
 

ingilax

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That guy could have tied a rubber band on a hook and caught just after lock down. He just tried harder than the other ghillies.
When there are new fish appearing all the time it is harmless, but can feck up a pool of residents.
Putting a Sunray though a pool on Tuesday makes no difference from Wednesday.
It can make a difference on any given day though. Either by being fished by a messy angler or being dragged repeatedly over a lie.
A ghillie I know only allows a sunray in his pools (on mixed rod weeks) 30 minutes before lunch and again at 4.30pm until knocking off time. Free for all in the evenings.
 

ingilax

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Are all of you here talking about the Sunrays and collie dogs being fished on sinking lines and sink tips
or on full floating lines as well? Here in Iceland in my river, we only fish floating lines and stripped Collie or Sunrays don't disturb pools much but rather the weighted tubes and coneheads. The collie stripped on floating is on top of the water but when fishing "in amongst them" with sinking lines/tips is what disturbs them.
 

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