Autum internationals 2021

diawl bach

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Have to admit to being touchy about Wales' wins being described as lucky or thanks to the ref, it's the usual sour grapes perpetuated by an overwhelmingly English media.

As it was we were up against the wall right through the second half, a couple of very good tries from Oz nearly sunk us but the winning points happened thanks to tight play, no high tackles there.
 
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original cormorant

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England were lucky to survive that penalty count, there could easily have been more/sooner yellows for persistent penalties which came from the pressure of the SA pack, hence England had the rub of the green.

From a coaching and training point of view, it's an easier task to get your team to avoid giving away penalties than get them to score tries.
I don't see how you can class it as an easy task to coach a team to avoid penalties when you are conceding penalties because you are being out-played. Perhaps you think it would be better to concede tries rather than penalties.

Given the dominance of the SA pack in the second half England were lucky to scrape a win.
 

PaulD

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I don't see how you can class it as an easy task to coach a team to avoid penalties when you are conceding penalties because you are being out-played. Perhaps you think it would be better to concede tries rather than penalties.

Given the dominance of the SA pack in the second half England were lucky to scrape a win.

Yes, South Africa's pack was dominant in the second half and no, I didn't say coaching the avoidance of penalties would be easy, I said it was an easier task than coaching them how to score tries.

Considering the domination of South Africa's pack in the second half you think it was 'luck' that brought England the win? Despite the fact that they were unable to conjure point scoring opportunities other than by England's penalty donation?

Post-Match-Report-England-v-South-Africa-3-724x1024.jpg
 

original cormorant

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England were fortunate in two respects. First that SA didn't make more of their forward dominance - Rob Baxter and several others could give them lessons. Secondly the ref seemed to have largely ignored the persistence of englands infringements, he seemed to need SA to point this out to him before the warning that led to Stuart's yellow.

Ask yourself with 10 minutes to go and england up by one point and with 14 men how confident were you that england would win?

I was amazed and relieved that England got away with a win.
 

PaulD

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Ask yourself with 10 minutes to go and england up by one point and with 14 men how confident were you that england would win?
In view of South Africa's physical presence and dominance, the number of penalties conceded and the try in the 69th minute, I was pretty much convinced that the game was gone for us. If I was a nail biter I'd have lost at least a hand.

What impressed me though, considering the relative inexperience of many of the England team and our 'frailty' in the scrum, leading to so many penalties, was our defensive strength in denying South Africa the opportunity to take advantage other than by kicking penalties that we gifted them.
 

JRT

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England were fortunate in two respects. First that SA didn't make more of their forward dominance - Rob Baxter and several others could give them lessons. Secondly the ref seemed to have largely ignored the persistence of englands infringements, he seemed to need SA to point this out to him before the warning that led to Stuart's yellow.

Ask yourself with 10 minutes to go and england up by one point and with 14 men how confident were you that england would win?

I was amazed and relieved that England got away with a win.

There were very few scrums in the game which reduced the threat. England gave some silly pens away through offside etc that were not down to SA pressure. Others, especially in that defensive period in the second half with SA in ascendency were down to pressure. Not sure about some of the pens given, especially the one when curry won the breakdown in the 2nd half right in front of the posts and was told to leave the ball alone? That was textbook from what I could tell.

I didnt think the Etzebeth head contact was a yellow nor the Kolisi challenge was a yellow.

I thought Englands breakdown work was very good. England played the better rugby, certainly more dynamic and deserved the win. The variation from Marcus Smith was excellent. In fact, all the new boys did exceptionally well.

SA have the best pack in the world. No one else can really compete with them in scrums so England tried to negate this by moving the ball. The SA game plan was and always is to slow the game down, kick and win the set-piece. It is very effective but why would you try and compete with the opposition's strengths?

Englands lineout wasn't great (no Jamie George). I thought we kicked too much, especially in their half when keeping the ball and going through the phases tend to lead to penalties, as shown in the last 1/4. Taking Youngs off for Harry Potter I thought was risky but proved to be the correct decision. Laws captaincy was excellent. Defensively England were excellent. Not sure about Curry at no.8?
But the England backline looked slick and dangerous every time they had the ball. Much better than Australia game with Farrel and Smith which seemed confused.
 
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Mr Notherone

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I didnt think the Etzebeth head contact was a yellow nor the Kolisi challenge was a yellow.

I thought Englands breakdown work was very good. England played the better rugby, certainly more dynamic and deserved the win. The variation from Marcus Smith was excellent. In fact, all the new boys did exceptionally well.
Yes I thought Kolisi challenge was penalty only, not a card. England's new boys were excellent. I expected it from Smith, but Steward looks to the manor born.

I agree about Curry. IMO he should compete with Underhill for 7 with Dombrandt or Simmonds at 8 and Lawes at 6. The back row talent pool is so deep, I bet there are grayling shoaled up at the bottom!
 

Gdog

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I know you guys had a disagreement with Cromwell and then there was the potato famine. I don't suppose you know an awful lot about Austria's history either. Perhaps I should feel insulted that you don't, but life's too short for such nonsense. I was born there as it happens. Regarding the insult, I shared a boat with Irishmen on a few occasions both in England and in Ireland and on two of those occasions they introduced themselves as Paddy. They obviously did not consider the name to be offensive.
Maybe their names were Paddy?

How many people joke about the war with germans nowadays, do you know what I mean.
 

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