Autumn Nations Cup

boisker

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Anyone else p'd off with Fiji. I've listened to the Pacific Islanders criticism for years of the World Union's inability to provide decent funding and their lack of opportunity to compete in Test Matches with the so called top tier teams. Dan Teo was at it recently (nasty, huge lump; watched him playing for Bishop Stortford v Old Albanians the season before last, quite scary)
Well, here was A chance, and what happened? While all the other teams were going about their business in a professional manner, avoiding Covid, staying healthy, it would appear Fiji had a different method.
I'm wondering if it was their Religiousness that ended with the bulk of the squad contracting Covid. Whatever, they knew the protocols and have let the Competition organisers down badly. Of course there may be more to it..

I haven’t read what precautions / protocols the Fijians implemented or ignored?
 

mrnotherone

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Don't know enough about it Del. I can see how it can get around the whole squad quickly, but no idea if they were complicit in letting it in. I would imagine the organisers want to know more given the impact on the competition.
 

PaulD

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First thing to say is well played, and respect to Wales.

Wales had a great opening . . . fortuitous try and poor kicking from England gave them a considerable initiative and they held on to the initiative throughout the game. However, in open play, with ball in their hand, they rarely achieved any advantage, but England, with ball in hand, looked threatening most of the time. I think it was a game where England would have done better not to rely so heavily on the kicking game. Underhill, Mako V, Launchbury and Itoje were superb and, at present, Wales do not have players to compete with them. England ruled the set pieces and continued to do so when the replacements came on.

It was a tough game, not a great one to watch but a result England will be pleased with and one which Wales should gain encouragement from.
 

PaulD

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Something I would add to this thread is how much I've enjoyed the Amazon Prime coverage, 'chat' pre and post game. Today, hosted by Gabby Logan with Dylan Hartley, Bryan Habana and Sam Warburton.

Really well informed, relaxed, a deal of humour . . . well done them.
 

mrnotherone

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It was a tough game, not a great one to watch but a result England will be pleased with and one which Wales should gain encouragement from.

It was a poor game, not as bad as Sale Newcastle yesterday, but not much better. It was a comfortable win, but I don't understand Englands game plan and they made a lot of mistakes. I think they made Wales look better than they are, but ironically it was probably the best Wales have performed all year. Wales will not win many without a better front 5. They can't create without a platform.

I've never thought the Ford Farrell partnership really works, Watson is the best 15 in England, Joseph is not a wing and Daly's best position is on the bench....but what do I know :)

One positive was Rees-Zammit who will grow into a fine international wing.
 

BobP

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It was a poor game, not as bad as Sale Newcastle yesterday, but not much better. It was a comfortable win, but I don't understand Englands game plan and they made a lot of mistakes. I think they made Wales look better than they are, but ironically it was probably the best Wales have performed all year. Wales will not win many without a better front 5. They can't create without a platform.

I've never thought the Ford Farrell partnership really works, Watson is the best 15 in England, Joseph is not a wing and Daly's best position is on the bench....but what do I know :)

One positive was Rees-Zammit who will grow into a fine international wing.

Wales were fortunate indeed with their try. Given the swinging arm I've seen that sort of "charge down" result in a penalty and a yellow card before now. Apart from that, not a scintillating game to watch not helped if, as I did, you watched the Welsh language commentary though the picture quality was a lot better than on Amazon.
 

mrnotherone

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Wales were fortunate indeed with their try. Given the swinging arm I've seen that sort of "charge down" result in a penalty and a yellow card before now. Apart from that, not a scintillating game to watch not helped if, as I did, you watched the Welsh language commentary though the picture quality was a lot better than on Amazon.
Yes. I don’t have prime so watched S4C with the sound down low. I will invest in prime if they win more rugby contracts.
 

BobP

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Yes. I don’t have prime so watched S4C with the sound down low. I will invest in prime if they win more rugby contracts.

Prime is worth it for the free postage on goods bought from Amazon. During this current little problem we have bought a lot of things from Amazon Prime and most of them have arrived next day even when ordered late in the afternoon. When you factor in having to go to a shop which is a risk in itself these days, fuel and parking, or ordering from that shop, paying the delivery and then waiting three or four days for your goods Prime comes out very favourably.
 

PaulD

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Milton Keynes shopping centre is 12 miles straight down the from where I live, do I go there . . . No! There is nothing I need so urgently that would persuade me to go, wrestle for a parking space and endure the privilege of paying £2 per hour for parking.

Amazon Prime, utterly delightful, with the added benefit of Prime Video - 'Pure Fly NZ', 'Only the River Knows', 'Rocky Mountain Fly Highway' . . . what's not to like?
 

delray

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Caught up with the game last night. I thought England were more pleasing on the eye with Ford at 10, but overall coherence wasn't quite there, and OK, Joseph's a delightful player, selecting him in an almost roving roll is fine, but out and out wingers can rove too. I think we needed a more damaging runner in the outsides; Cockanathingy?
Still good winners though with Wales showing better than they did v Ireland especially in defence. They'll be bruised this morning. AWJ's face with the scrum decisions was a picture, but from this point, he's not going to get better (despite my adoring musings the other week), and he needs some power around him, and it doesn't seem to be available to Wales right now.
I guess it's England/France in the Final
 

PaulD

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It think it's fair to say that Wales are well 'off the pace' in the scrum and the lineout. From the first scrum, Wales front row had the impression of being dazed and confused, was there anyone else in the second row with AJ-W? James Botham 'stood up' and Faletau played well in a pack that was going backwards.

It's a fact that Wales do not have the depth of players to call on the England clearly does - a fact clearly illustrated when the late replacements came off the bench. The only one who had an impact for Wales was Rhys Webb, why he wasn't on from the start I've no idea.
 

mrnotherone

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It's a fact that Wales do not have the depth of players to call on the England clearly does - a fact clearly illustrated when the late replacements came off the bench. The only one who had an impact for Wales was Rhys Webb, why he wasn't on from the start I've no idea.

Sadly Paul, very true. The structures are not there in regional rugby to change it either. There is the usual clambering for someone who has a good game against Zebra to be given the red shirt but invariably they are nowhere near ready for international rugby.

Currently we have a few ageing stars, a few decent back row when fit and a few promising young backs who need time, but we have a serious shortage of front five forwards. We definitely don’t have a hooker who can draw a straight line ☹️
 

billy fish

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The hooker made an issue out of the position of one line out ,instead of just moving to the touch judge ,and then threw it in crooked .
It was a poor game that failed to hold my attention so i switched channels to watch Exeter As soon as it started.
 

boisker

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Apart from the knockdown try Wales never really threatened. It’s an effective style of play England have at the moment, but it is frustrating to watch at times... kicking / risk free rugby as a style takes a bit of the joy from the game. I think they will look at the 1st half and think they should have been further ahead and done a bit more with the ball, but they were also making some mistakes in the first half and didn’t have the intensity that achieved in the first half against the Irish.
Assuming its France in the final... that should offer a bigger test as to where they are.
 

JRT

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George Ford kicking all the time negated most of the backs for most of the time. When we actually did have the the ball and ran at them we looked dangerous.

This seems to be a theme with Eddie Jones - I understand what they are doing but unless the kick is pin point accurate and contestable you are just giving the ball away and relieving pressure.
Unless England make serious ground in 3 phases they just kick. This is getting very predicable and usually ineffective against quality sides prepared for it. It also means that you reducing the impact of your big ball carriers. To me kicking the ball away in the opposition 22 after 3 phases is impatient. It would be far better to go through the phases and either forcing a penalty and wearing the opposition down through ongoing pressure.

Wales and other sides next year will be a much better and work this to their advantage.
Looking forward to the France game as they will match Englands physicality.

Oh, and Amazon coverage is shite IMO. No pause or rewind on a streaming service - whats that about??
The only upside is Shanks and Flats doing the commentary.
 

boisker

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George Ford kicking all the time negated most of the backs for most of the time. When we actually did have the the ball and ran at them we looked dangerous.

This seems to be a theme with Eddie Jones - I understand what they are doing but unless the kick is pin point accurate and contestable you are just giving the ball away and relieving pressure.
Unless England make serious ground in 3 phases they just kick. This is getting very predicable and usually ineffective against quality sides prepared for it. It also means that you reducing the impact of your big ball carriers. To me kicking the ball away in the opposition 22 after 3 phases is impatient. It would be far better to go through the phases and either forcing a penalty and wearing the opposition down through ongoing pressure.

Wales and other sides next year will be a much better and work this to their advantage.
Looking forward to the France game as they will match Englands physicality.

Oh, and Amazon coverage is shite IMO. No pause or rewind on a streaming service - whats that about??
The only upside is Shanks and Flats doing the commentary.
It’s effective though... 75% win rate through 19/20
 

PaulD

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George Ford kicking all the time negated most of the backs for most of the time. When we actually did have the the ball and ran at them we looked dangerous.

This seems to be a theme with Eddie Jones - I understand what they are doing but unless the kick is pin point accurate and contestable you are just giving the ball away and relieving pressure.
Unless England make serious ground in 3 phases they just kick. This is getting very predicable and usually ineffective against quality sides prepared for it. It also means that you reducing the impact of your big ball carriers. To me kicking the ball away in the opposition 22 after 3 phases is impatient. It would be far better to go through the phases and either forcing a penalty and wearing the opposition down through ongoing pressure.

Wales and other sides next year will be a much better and work this to their advantage.
Looking forward to the France game as they will match Englands physicality.

When we had the ball in our hands did we look like we were going to score a try? Sadly no. We were 'lucky' that Henry Slade's try was awarded following the taking of Biggar while he was in the air, Mako's try was from a pirouette over the line from possession from penalties. 12 of our points came from penalties, Farrell missed another 3 penalties.

"Wales and other sides next year will be a much better and work this to their advantage." I'm sure they'll be pleased with your assessment but England are ranked #2 in the World which does seem to add some credence to Jones' 'theme'. It is not impatience, quite the opposite. Done well it is a hugely profitable attacking ploy. Wales tried to run with the ball in hand against England and mostly ended up going backwards. Yes, England's early kicking was wayward but it is a fact, albeit a not very entertaining one, that in the 'modern game', the team that kicks most, wins most.
 

boisker

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Some interesting discussions online and some articles (Dawson on the BEEB) commenting on the impact of changes in refereeing...
players are massively fitter, so the pitch becomes smaller
the changes to how games are refereed mostly to try and protect players and reduce concussions... but also to speed up the game... attacking players clearing the breakdown having to be in control and ‘on their feet’ and reducing the time the jackler (spelling???) has to be on the ball, means it’s ‘easier‘ to get turnovers... which has encouraged teams to be more risk averse out wide...
 

JRT

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When we had the ball in our hands did we look like we were going to score a try? Sadly no. We were 'lucky' that Henry Slade's try was awarded following the taking of Biggar while he was in the air, Mako's try was from a pirouette over the line from possession from penalties. 12 of our points came from penalties, Farrell missed another 3 penalties.

"Wales and other sides next year will be a much better and work this to their advantage." I'm sure they'll be pleased with your assessment but England are ranked #2 in the World which does seem to add some credence to Jones' 'theme'. It is not impatience, quite the opposite. Done well it is a hugely profitable attacking ploy. Wales tried to run with the ball in hand against England and mostly ended up going backwards. Yes, England's early kicking was wayward but it is a fact, albeit a not very entertaining one, that in the 'modern game', the team that kicks most, wins most.

we broke their line numerous times but didn’t capitalise due to mistakes abs fumbles. We would have seen more opportunities if we didn’t kick so much.
Kicking in their 22 after a couple of phases is becoming predictable. You don’t see the ABs do it that often unless it’s ‘on’.
 
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