Beavers - benefits for your rivers and streams

speytime

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 27, 2009
Messages
6,568
Location
West Lothian Scotland
So what are peoples problems with reintroducing Beavers? I think fish and the rivers have a far greater threat from dirty farmers and water companies flushing slurry, sewage, silage wrap, tyres, chemicals etc. into the river than they every will from pockets of Beavers or Otters.
Farmers and land owners will just get government compensation for the "damage" caused by them, because god forbid the poor farmers shouldn't have more free money thrown at him, as he goes off to buy another Range Rover...
If Beavers can help to reduce the impact of flooding, and there are studies that say they do, then that is a pretty good trade off considering the millions wasted on reactive defences that are only put in place after the flood.
Flooding is going to become more and more of an issue in the country, due to many issues, climate change and farming being the main ones, so long term preventative and restorative measures are going to be needed rather than just adding another concrete wall and ordering some more sandbags.
Do you know any farmers?
 

jeffhirst

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 11, 2012
Messages
326
Lets hope the the re introduction of wolves will sort out the balance of seals otters and beavers;)
 

boisker

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 15, 2011
Messages
3,118
Location
Devon
Yes quite a few it's there right.
Edit... Was there right pre Brexit.

Al

I’m impressed.... I’ve worked with the farming community for 25 years and could count on one hand those who don’t claim any subsidies.... in fact i wouldn’t need a hand, a stump would do 😂
 

speytime

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 27, 2009
Messages
6,568
Location
West Lothian Scotland
I’m impressed.... I’ve worked with the farming community for 25 years and could count on one hand those who don’t claim any subsidies.... in fact i wouldn’t need a hand, a stump would do 😂
I'm not with you?
Farmers farmed for the European Market, hence the grants?

Al
 

speytime

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 27, 2009
Messages
6,568
Location
West Lothian Scotland
I’m impressed.... I’ve worked with the farming community for 25 years and could count on one hand those who don’t claim any subsidies.... in fact i wouldn’t need a hand, a stump would do 😂
Are you seriously suggesting that farmers shouldn't claim EU subsidies?
Presumably you know what the subsidies are for, you'll know why there entitled to them.
 

Prolifichare

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 31, 2020
Messages
101
Location
Eden Valley, Cumbria
Yes I do know some farmers, I have also worked with them on tree planted projects where they set aside a piece of ground that is unsuitable/unproductive for farming or grazing and then get paid, from our taxes, for not being able to farm that useless ground. Then a company is paid to plant trees on there. Also funded by the taxpayer. The farmer then receives nice new free fences and some free money each year. But that's just one example of how a private business is funded by the taxpayer, I don't see any small independent shops or manufacturers receiving a top up for their income because they've got a rubbish business model.
Boisker is spot, on every farmer I've ever come across claim subsidies, every one claims they're poor, every one has a Range Rover and a Focus ST.
 

Mr Notherone

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 19, 2013
Messages
4,543
Location
Monmouthshire
The farming business model (and food retail) has been broken for decades and brexit will do nothing to address that. I'm more concerned with how farms do or don't manage their responsibilities to protect the environment. Many do care, but too many don't give a ****.

The penalty for killing a river should be enough to threaten their business or custodial. Unfortunately it's often a slap on the wrist or a paltry fine. In the case of chicken farmers it's a poultry fine :rolleyes:
 

Prolifichare

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 31, 2020
Messages
101
Location
Eden Valley, Cumbria
The farming business model (and food retail) has been broken for decades and brexit will do nothing to address that. I'm more concerned with how farms do or don't manage their responsibilities to protect the environment. Many do care, but too many don't give a ****.

The penalty for killing a river should be enough to threaten their business or custodial. Unfortunately it's often a slap on the wrist or a paltry fine. In the case of chicken farmers it's a poultry fine :rolleyes:
This is one of my biggest bug bears with modern farming. Couldn't agree more.

Farmers who I know for a fact are receiving taxpayers funding (subsidies) are also for a fact digging stone out of the river in the middle of the night and washing slurry back into it. Reported to the EA and nothing been done.
 

glueman

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 21, 2008
Messages
4,708
Location
on the banks of the A5
Are you seriously suggesting that farmers shouldn't claim EU subsidies?
Presumably you know what the subsidies are for, you'll know why there entitled to them.
The EU grant was the profit for the business without it there would not be a profitable farming business in the UK. As for Tractors and combines etc these are purchased or to be correct leased just like you lease your car
 

speytime

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 27, 2009
Messages
6,568
Location
West Lothian Scotland
Yes I do know some farmers, I have also worked with them on tree planted projects where they set aside a piece of ground that is unsuitable/unproductive for farming or grazing and then get paid, from our taxes, for not being able to farm that useless ground. Then a company is paid to plant trees on there. Also funded by the taxpayer. The farmer then receives nice new free fences and some free money each year. But that's just one example of how a private business is funded by the taxpayer, I don't see any small independent shops or manufacturers receiving a top up for their income because they've got a rubbish business model.
So is the above the farmers fault?
Your only gripe appears to be that the EU grants money to farmers and projects (like set aside) it deems necessary.
 

glueman

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 21, 2008
Messages
4,708
Location
on the banks of the A5
So is the above the farmers fault?
Your only gripe appears to be that the EU grants money to farmers and projects (like set aside) it deems necessary.
Speytime it is called Farmer Bashing and is a UK sport. The answer is to let the moaners have a go. When I was married the first job on Christmas Day was feed the livestock then get cleaned up for the days festivities and in the evening check said livestock again. Give it a go see how you get on because during the winter it was every day come sun or rain or snow
 

Mr Notherone

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 19, 2013
Messages
4,543
Location
Monmouthshire
The EU grant was the profit for the business without it there would not be a profitable farming business in the UK. As for Tractors and combines etc these are purchased or to be correct leased just like you lease your car
Ask yourself why farmers can't make a profit without a subsidy?? That is what is wrong with the business model. It's not as if good food is optional. We undervalue food and have driven profit from where it should be into the hands of big international businesses. Governments have mismanaged agriculture to the point where taxpayers are subsidising an essential industry - crazy.
 

speytime

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 27, 2009
Messages
6,568
Location
West Lothian Scotland
@glueman I've noticed the farmer bashing right enough.

Personally I wouldn't do there job for a million a year, you could hardly describe it as the good life, working 365 days, all daylight hours in all weather, that's a curse not a life.

Al
The farming business model (and food retail) has been broken for decades and brexit will do nothing to address that. I'm more concerned with how farms do or don't manage their responsibilities to protect the environment. Many do care, but too many don't give a ****.

The penalty for killing a river should be enough to threaten their business or custodial. Unfortunately it's often a slap on the wrist or a paltry fine. In the case of chicken farmers it's a poultry fine :rolleyes:
[/QUOTE
 

speytime

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 27, 2009
Messages
6,568
Location
West Lothian Scotland
I'll give you my understanding of it, with the EU arrangements we have a good variety of everything, if it was left to the farmer they would grow the most profitable crop along with every other farmer, so for easy speaking we'd have billions of tons of turnip but not enough wheat or barely.

Al
Ask yourself why farmers can't make a profit without a subsidy?? That is what is wrong with the business model. It's not as if good food is optional. We undervalue food and have driven profit from where it should be into the hands of big international businesses. Governments have mismanaged agriculture to the point where taxpayers are subsidising an essential industry - crazy.
 

glueman

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 21, 2008
Messages
4,708
Location
on the banks of the A5
Farming is the only business where the customer tells you what they are going to pay. I can't see you telling the Ford Garage how much you will give them for a car they tell you how much they will sell it for
 

glueman

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 21, 2008
Messages
4,708
Location
on the banks of the A5
Before Lips goes on about my succesfull business I did farming in the evening ,weekends and any other spare time as I was married to a farmer
 

Mr Notherone

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 19, 2013
Messages
4,543
Location
Monmouthshire
Farming is the only business where the customer tells you what they are going to pay. I can't see you telling the Ford Garage how much you will give them for a car they tell you how much they will sell it for

Wrong...customers always set the price. It's called supply and demand in the free market. If no one buys a Ford, they reset the price or go out of business. Agriculture has become a subsidised, managed market and that's why farmers now have less control. If you become used to living off a subsidy, where is the incentive to run an efficient modern business? Like anything - those farms that diversify and innovate have done better, those that don't struggle.
 

Latest posts

Top