Cane rod reconditioning

murph

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Thanks for that splinters. I will go grab a tin in the morning. Would you thin it down with white spirits for the thread or just apply it as it is? "Does exactly what it says on the tin" after all!

A bum boat? As in the boats from the far east?
 

splinters

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Bum boat as in Easker's post #34.

I always thin my varnish 30% white spirit to 70% varnish or thereabouts. It doesn't need to be accurate to the nth degree, just thinned enough to be easily usable. Initial coat should be just enough to soak the wraps and secure them. If it runs or droops you used too much.
My method, other will vary. Find the one you like :-
I soak the thread then wick it off again with a dry brush.
Allow to dry according to the instructions regarding second coats.
Apply second coat, allow to dry.
Check for imperfections, there will be some, trust me.
Finely sand down any bumps lumps or dust bunnies and recoat. James' mentioned hard foam nail boards before, they're great for this task. Wives and daughters have them hidden away usually.
Many thin coats are easier than a couple of thick ones, done properly you won't have to keep the blank turning like with epoxy.
Repeat as needed until you arrive at perfection or get sick of it.
'Lil tip. If you intend to make an overlap of varnish at the end of the wrap as many do, leave it until the last coat. This will keep it tidier. Long thin bristles make straighter lines than short thick ones. I use watercolour 'rigger' brushes for this as I have a shaky hand.
Have fun.

Simon.
 

badcaster

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Splinters, that's excellent advice thank you, very clear. Tips like that are so useful and can have a make or brake effect sometimes so thanks again.

Rather than varnish Ive used epoxy in the past to get a quick high build, set up a rod stand out of two bookends with v's cut in the top and rotated the rod every now and again by hand to endure no runs. Can't recall if it was 5-minute epoxy though, any suggestions? I'm looking at the Seymo quick pro two pack, any experience with this?
 

splinters

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No experience with the Seymo I'm afraid, if it's as good as their snake guides it'll be great. Is it high or low build? On the rare occasions I use epoxy I stick with Flex coat lite. It's never caused me a problem. That said others have reported all sorts of troubles with it, maybe I've been lucky. Never be scared to put too little on at a time. It's easier to add more later than take excess off and a couple of low build coats will give a better finish than one high build one. As with the varnish I just soak the thread with the first coat then sort out any imperfections before finishing.
Question....are either of you guys planning on using colour preserver on your wraps?

Simon.
 

badcaster

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Thanks again Simon I'll try that with a few low build coats.

Re the colour preserver, I'm thinking of trying fuji NCP thread in red - no colour preserver - so if it does what it says on the tin??

Having said that, I'm not really that fussed what it ends up as but will try a sample first to make sure its not miles off what I want. The main colour changes Ive seen are to darken the colour - please correct or enlighten me if I'm wrong here - so if its a bright red, darkening it will hopefully still leave a nice colour; and if no colour change with the NCP then I'll still obviously be happy.

Having said that, I've not experience of colour preserver anyway?
 

splinters

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I only mentioned it because using CP can be problematic. It's easy to miss getting a proper seal and spoiling a wrap. But there's a handy trick I was taught to protect against this. Once the CP is dry you soak the wraps with plain water and leave for a few minutes. If there's a flaw in the seal the wrap will darken. Allow to dry then add another coat of CP and test again. The idea is that the water will dry out and the wrap will return to it's original colour allowing you to correct problems. If you don't test and the varnish leaks through the wrap is lost. Saves having to repeat wraps. Simples. Obviously with NCP thread you won't need this trick.

Simon.
 

badcaster

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Once more really appreciate the tips Simon, well put and sounds really obvious when you point it out but could otherwise easily be missed so it's a great way to check first and save time. Cracking tips, really kind of you to share.

Next step for me is rigging up a drill headstock to get my snapped ferrules re-turned.

Re-turning the ferrules for me is the most challenging part of the refit. The handle replacement is going to be awkward but is unlikely to go badly wrong, but if the ferrules are not straightly aligned I'll not be happy - and that's the challenge. If the ferrules do turn out fine I'll be over the hump as I see it and onto the varnishing / oiling so I've a long way to go before getting anywhere near to NCP thread!
 

liphook

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I don't recommend the Seymo epoxy. It's bad for yellowing quickly. Perhas OK for a quick fix but not for me on a full build. I've been there believe me. Bulllards Diamond 2 for me as that's what I have in bulk. You can thin any of them down to become 'lite'. Don't mix in small batches - it's false economy if your mix is out and refuses to set.
 

badcaster

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Lip hook, thanks for that, really appreciate the comment, I've not ordered it yet so can look for alternatives (y)

In the meantime I've just turned the bamboo for the ferrules pics to follow.
 

badcaster

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just spent an hour or two re-turning my ferrules and I'm happy with the results.
I've previously built a small 6" drum sander driven by a power drill, and this was pretty much perfect for this application. I removed the drum from the housing and used the bearings to steady the blank as it turned in the chuck.

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All in all not lost too much off the lengths, I'll even up the two tip sections before I fit the top eyes.

They've turned out straight enough for me but that took quite a lot of careful setup aligning the blank in the chuck, just need to glue up now, and hopefully that will be me on with a rod build!
 
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easker1

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we used to build up the sections rather than turn the sections down, using slips of cane glued on to the Blank then fitting the ferrule, turning the cane down leaves a weak spot on the rod, sorry if you think this is a negative thing but it's what we did, if you get a hold of an old british made rod you will find that's how it was done, easker1
 

splinters

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I don't recommend the Seymo epoxy. It's bad for yellowing quickly. Perhas OK for a quick fix but not for me on a full build. I've been there believe me. Bulllards Diamond 2 for me as that's what I have in bulk. You can thin any of them down to become 'lite'. Don't mix in small batches - it's false economy if your mix is out and refuses to set.
Can you get it in the UK? I can't find a source.

S.
 

liphook

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Good evening Simon
I got the Diamond 2 from Nathan at RRT. It's a while back mind. I bought the stock of a retiring builder and he was a Flex Coat user but also had some 5l containers without labels that I think he said was Gibbs?, so I've plenty of the stuff. If I'm honest I can't tell the difference between any of them in the final finish, little difference in the mixing and only a little difference in the pot time. They're all 2 part casting resins re badged for rod building under various guises I'm my opinion.

One thing that definitely helps is to have a consistantly warm room, dust and silicone free, and preferably heated a drying box to keep it all that way as it spins
 

badcaster

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we used to build up the sections rather than turn the sections down, using slips of cane glued on to the Blank then fitting the ferrule, turning the cane down leaves a weak spot on the rod, sorry if you think this is a negative thing but it's what we did, if you get a hold of an old british made rod you will find that's how it was done, easker1
Easker1 thanks for the tip I can definitely see where you're coming from there, totally makes sense. Not a negative comment at all - I suppose I'm learning by flying by the seat of my pants! I've basically repeated the way this one was originally made, though the ferrules I've used don't have the raised shoulder part. I suppose the test for any weak points will be the first fish or two but I'll give it a go and see how it manages.
 

easker1

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it's some time since I did any thing with Cane, I found it a struggle to find decent ferrules for instance buying ferrules from Hardys almost involved a Mortgage,plus Vat, but the early tubular F/glass rods were a doddle, easker1
 

badcaster

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Glue up finished now and the rod is straight as a die, pleasantly surprised with that. I've now ordered some flex coat epoxy with red pro wrap with metallic gold for trim. Only thing is though that they only had red in D gauge. Any thoughts? I can look elsewhere and pick up some A grade if the need is there. The metallic is A grade.

Next task will be to strip off the old varnish and refinish.
 

murph

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Badcaster how are you getting on with your project?

I've seeming hit a wall with mine. Dam you sunshine! I can't bring myself to devote time to finish the whipping when the weather is so lovely in the garden. I have a few cooler days towards the end of the week, so will book it into the diary for then. After all l, I feel the current situation is one of a marathon rather than a sprint, and I can't be running out of "important jobs".



Regards John
 

badcaster

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Hi Murph, the handle and reel seat have landed, plus the thread and flex coat. I'm also finding it is tough getting time on it, but I've turned the wood handle part down to the required size I now need to ream the cork to fit and that can get glued in place. I still need to strip off the old finish and spend a week or more oiling it.
I've moved onto the wooden tube I'm making as well which has taken my time up, an aside really but pleasing as well.
I scrapped an old microwave a few years ago but took the motor out for a rod dryer, so that's another little mini project en route. Might put together a quick thread wrapping setup as well, hand rotation for that though.
Agree re the current position, I think we might have dry waders for some time yet.
I'll post some updates when there's more significant progress, let us know how you get on too.
Should have said too, the D gauge thread with the A gauge trim looks ok, not epoxied it but applied about 4 layers of clear nail varnish and they look ok together. The heavy varnish layer masks the thread size differences. Also unlikely I'll have trim throughout as well. Whether or not high build finish is your cup of tea though I don't know but it looks fine to me.
 

Cooperman

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Saw the mention of a thread wrapping set up in previous post so thought I'd share my efforts, made from bits and pieces in the garage at zero cost.
IMG_0293.JPG
 

badcaster

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Thanks for sharing your setup cooperman, can see by the results it certainly does the trick.(y)(y)
I've sorted my spool holders today but a quick question about the high feed wheel, what benefit does this give opposed to feeding straight off the spool?
Does it help keep tension even? I've seen these on the images on the web and if needed I'm thinking of picking up a cheap quiver tip off eBay to do the same?
 
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