Casting into the wind - best rod action?

mancfly

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If you think Steve Parton's 'it's because Americans are cr@p casters' argument is well considered then I guess there is no point in debating with you!




Mike Marshall holds just the one record with a DT, the #7 distance. This was achieved by aerialising the whole 90ft line and using it as a shooting head. So that adds no credence to your point.

YOU MISSED OUT "RESERVATIONS" after "well considered! Do you work for The Sun?

Sorry to disappoint you, but the comment by Steve about American casters was taken by me, to be a tongue in cheek bit of mischief. So it's not what i was referring to at all regarding "well considered RESERVATIONS". I was referring to Steves sentence, "And yes into a wind DT every time if you know what you are doing !" I take this to mean using double haul, and thats what "with reservations" refers to. Safety may be a consideration too!

"no credence"? So why do you think he chose a DT "as a shooting head":eek: to perform that 142' cast rather than a WF?
He also holds the double handed distance record of 248', all be it with a true shooting head.
Maybe i should have said, has achieved several records and won several tournaments using a DT line. :whistle:

So, anyway, that's the latest nit picking and tactical diversions addressed. Do you still adhere to your WF theories? If so, i think we should agree to disagree.:)
 
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Ron Clay

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I think the cream will always come to the surface. ;)

I think the point Steve was making in his own inimitable way - :) was an overall accurate generalization applicable to any country.


David.

Having fished with a few American anglers in my life, I can confirm what Steve P is saying. And he means that the average American angler is a much poorer caster than the average British angler.

The top American anglers, and a few have been listed here, are certainly very good casters indeed and are world leaders in what they do. In fact it was the Americans who invented shooting heads, forward taper lines and a whole host of other goodies to help us all cast further with less effort.

The average American fly fisher however, is not confronted with the challenges that face the average English fly fisher. That is a huge wild reservoir on opening day with a stiff easterly gale blowing sleet into your face and a few big rainbows out beyond the "third breaker" that will take a fly only if you can get your fly out there.

And certainly to be able to cast into a stiff breeze means to me, the use of a heavier line (up to a point), cast with a double haul and tight loop to cut through the wind resistance. For overall shore work on big reservoirs, I have found that a 8 weight shooting head made up from roughly half a double taper spliced to a suitable braid, to overcome the casting problems very well. This is teamed up with a 9 1/2 foot rod with an action similar to the Greys Platinum XD is admirable.

Don't try casting with an 18 foot parallel leader with two droppers directly into a gale though!
 
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RPS

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In fact it was the Americans who invented shooting heads, forward taper lines and a whole host of other goodies to help us all cast further with less effort.

That is news to me.
 

David Norwich

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Casting into the wind - What is the best rod action?

Having fished with a few American anglers in my life, I can confirm what Steve P is saying. And he means that the average American angler is a much poorer caster than the average British angler.

The average American fly fisher however, is not confronted with the challenges that face the average English fly fisher. That is a huge wild reservoir on opening day with a stiff easterly gale blowing sleet into your face and a few big rainbows out beyond the "third breaker" that will take a fly only if you can get your fly out there.
!

:) It gets windy in Wales, Scotland and Ireland too. Some of us can even cast poorly on rivers.... :whistle:

Joking aside, the vast majority of average American Trout fly fisherman fish rivers. So the divide is not as wide as you think. The abilty to cast (or fish) well in windy - or any conditions on a still water (if that is all the fishing he does) will not equip the still water angler with the skills needed to fish a river or vice-versa.

Getting back to the original topic - giving an answer to this question has been ignored over the numerous posts. The original question posed was :

"Casting into the wind - What is the best rod action?"

Are we any nearer to an answer to this question?


David.
 

Ron Clay

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:) It gets windy in Wales, Scotland and Ireland too. Some of us can even cast poorly on rivers.... :whistle:

Joking aside, the vast majority of average American Trout fly fisherman fish rivers. So the divide is not as wide as you think. The abilty to cast (or fish) well in windy - or any conditions on a still water (if that is all the fishing he does) will not equip the still water angler with the skills needed to fish a river or vice-versa.

Getting back to the original topic - giving an answer to this question has been ignored over the numerous posts. The original question posed was :

"Casting into the wind - What is the best rod action?"

Are we any nearer to an answer to this question?


David.


Greys Platinum XD - Period!
 

James9118

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Do you still adhere to your WF theories?

What theories? Just to clarify, if you re-read my posts you'll see I've been debating the contention that DTs are better into the wind. I haven't stated WFs are better.

However, do I believe DTs are better? - on the whole, no I don't. The whole issue is so dependent on the individual caster. Perhaps it's another issue to test empirically at a gathering of casters of different abilities - perhaps Zoomer could organize a test at the club?
 
Z

zoomer

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perhaps Zoomer could organize a test at the club?


yea right, then you lot hang me from the rafters:D

i think the main confusion with rod action is in the distance into the wind, at 60' a rod that likes 60' generally wins etc,

on lines it depends on how much your carrying or shooting.
 

Guest108

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Greys Platinum XD - Period!


The Platinum xd comp. special is without question a rod that will deliver { i use them } and is a great tool !, even better, it's within most people's budget and backed by an affordable guarentee.

However......... the Loomis glx Distance is in my opinion the stick !!....
Too much bread though......... i sold mine for two reasons. 1. The elimination of 10/8# two piece rod's. 2. The cost of replacement.
 
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Ron Clay

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Why do you say that this is news to you? Perhaps you don't believe me.

The foundations of what can be termed "classical fly casting" were rocked during the 30s when American anglers fishing for steelhead, developed shooting heads for fishing in large deep rivers where long casting was required. At about the same time a man called Marvin Hedge introduced a new casting method and smashed the present world single handed casting record of about 20 yards, two times over!

Such methods of casting were eventually made known to British anglers by Tom Ivens and Geoff Bucknall as the rapid expansion of reservoir angling took place in the 50s and 60s.

---------- Post added at 09:46 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:41 PM ----------

The Platinum xd comp. special is without question a rod that will deliver { i use them } and is a great tool !, even better it's within most people's budget and backed by an affordable guarentee.

However......... the Loomis glx Distance is in my opinion is the stick !!....
Too much bread though......... i sold mine for two reasons. 1. The elimination of 10/8# two piece rod's. 2. The cost of replacement.

Another rod which can chuck a line was the 9 1/2 foot 9 weight Sage RPL I owned, which was nicked unfortunately. I used it for 10 years and I was just about to replace the snake rings which had grooved badly with single leg Fuji SiCs
 

Ron Clay

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And I tend to agree with you regarding the Loomis rods. I might get myself a Loomis rod, but only if I could buy the blank.

The last time I looked at a Loomis rod, the finish was so poor, I would want to build the rod myself. And I would put SiC rings on thoroughout. I do get a bit underwhelmed when snakes get grooves in them, especially on rods costing upwards of £600!!
 

RPS

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In terms of shooting heads and weight forward lines I was thinking of anglers on the Thames in the 1700's with shooting head fly lines, or earlier to Richard Franck (one of Cromwell's soldiers) who wrote of salmon lines with thick tapered ends, or moving back up to Bainbridge in the early 1800's remarking about level lines with a seperate special 10 yard tapered casting head looped to the end.

Therefore, in respect of WF and shooting lines, I think we beat the yanks once again.
 

Guest108

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---------- Post added at 09:46 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:41 PM ----------

[/COLOR]

Another rod which can chuck a line was the 9 1/2 foot 9 weight Sage RPL I owned, which was nicked unfortunately. I used it for 10 years and I was just about to replace the snake rings which had grooved badly with single leg Fuji SiCs

Distance rings groove badly Ron. Big let down for a tool of that class.

{ sorry just read your follow on post about loomis rings }
 
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Barrio

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Hi guys:)

I've just read all 36 pages and think it is a great thread, well done to those who stuck it out and discussed things openly. Strangely enough, I have often found myself underlining my rod in a good wind.

Cheers
Mike
 
Z

zoomer

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Hi guys:)I've just read all 36 pages and think it is a great thread, well done to those who stuck it out and discussed things openly. Strangely enough, I have often found myself underlining my rod in a good wind.CheersMike


putting it so simply, it makes me want to ask, do you prefer a heavier line in the calm?
 

Barrio

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Good point zoomer

No, you've got me there ..... I'm told by my friends that I do tend to underline most rods in most conditions, especially with longbelly and DT lines.

I would probably have been better saying that I don't reach for a heavier line for the same rod in a wind. ;)

Once again, I guess it's down to personal "feel", which is so difficult to quantify.

Excellent stuff with the casting club by the way!
Best wishes
Mike
 

David Norwich

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In terms of shooting heads and weight forward lines I was thinking of anglers on the Thames in the 1700's with shooting head fly lines, or earlier to Richard Franck (one of Cromwell's soldiers) who wrote of salmon lines with thick tapered ends, or moving back up to Bainbridge in the early 1800's remarking about level lines with a seperate special 10 yard tapered casting head looped to the end.

Therefore, in respect of WF and shooting lines, I think we beat the yanks once again.

:) Very good. I didn't know that. It seems we learn little from history and keep trying to re-invent the wheel. I thought all the realy valuable advances in line profile started in the 1940's.

To be fair to Ron though - Marvin was the man who gave us the basis of the design of the weight forward line profiles we use today. He introduced the double haul sometime in the 30s to tournament casting. History is not clear on the line profile he used then. In the book "The Anglers Cast" By Captain Tommy Edwards and Eric Horsfall Turner 1960. The book is a history of casting from the turn of the century. There is a super comment by Captain Edwards on the double line pull cast being nothing more than an extension of the fly anglers long range stillwater cast - and later on a slightly peeved admission of how effective it was when Hedge broke all the UK records (some held by the Captain) and gave drubbing to the top UK casters of the day. In 1938 the single hand UK record jumped from something like 39 to 50 yards using an 8ft 6inch cane rod and his own spliced silk weight forward lines. He polished the shooting line with graphite powder.

It's interesting that Hedge wrote very clearly that "weight of the main line was important, length of line was second in importance irrespective of the diameter." The Hedge 7 taper Balanced line was patented in 1941.


David.
 
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Ron Clay

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Thanks for your post David. The information I have been able to glean on the early days of shooting/forward tapers has probably been a bit too sketchy. But up until Hedge came along, fly casting was taught along the lines of stiff wrists, elbow into your sides and stiff upper lip what?

I also heard that there was a scenario where Hedge picked up a typical English style dry fly outfit and chucked the line 40 yards!

50 yards with a 8 1/2 foot split cane rod!

Hedge must have been one hell of a caster.

Tommy Edwards, Jack Martin and Eric Horsfall-Turner were the men who turned English traditional fly casting on it's head. In fact there was a period when Jack Martin was the world casting champion.

I'll try and get Steve P to comment on this thread.
 
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