Casting into the wind - best rod action?

RPS

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Oh I am sure Ron and yourself are correct about modern developments, but with the original claim being so open and contrary to our own history I just couldn’t resist it.

I have heard the name but really don’t know about that period, perhaps someone can start a thread on the evolution of “modern fly fishing”, whatever that may be. Perhaps not forgetting to cover the large number of persons/developments that changed the weight of focus in fly fishing away from a traditional view for wild brown trout to a fresh view with rainbow trout.

While I have posted it before, I actually have a had written/drawn fishing diary of an angler from Vancouver Island who fished there with double handed rods, “spey lines”, weighted shooting lines etc for steelhead (though the diary records it basically ceasing in the 1950's) but I just wonder how many modern US/Canadian anglers know that they did that then? One angler contacted me about that diary, he had lived in that area and fished for steelhead but didn’t know about the fishery history/tactics etc. I am sure it is the same case for areas of Canada & America etc, once great fisheries with a history of fishing and techniques being lost and re-invented.
 

David Norwich

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Thanks for your post David. The information I have been able to glean on the early days of shooting/forward tapers has probably been a bit too sketchy. But up until Hedge came along, fly casting was taught along the lines of stiff wrists, elbow into your sides and stiff upper lip what?

I also heard that there was a scenario where Hedge picked up a typical English style dry fly outfit and chucked the line 40 yards!

50 yards with a 8 1/2 foot split cane rod!

Hedge must have been one hell of a caster.

Tommy Edwards, Jack Martin and Eric Horsfall-Turner were the men who turned English traditional fly casting on it's head. In fact there was a period when Jack Martin was the world casting champion.

I'll try and get Steve P to comment on this thread.

:) This thread is rapidly turning into all our yesterdays..... Rightly so too. We should never take for granted the super equipment we have today and the unsung forgotten pioneers who pushed tackle development to the edge of the envelope.

We really should start a new thread on the innovators. For instance Jack Martin who you mentioned. A great caster. When he worked for Masterline he helped developed a line called The Banker. Basically a forerunner of the Wulff TT line. They used to use a profile of Jack casting on the Masterline logo.


Regards,

David.
 
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RPS

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And don't forget the future. The marketing of fly fishing worldwide to people of different cultures who now have the money to pursue fly fishing, even for species that aren't "game" fish, could mean a revolution to the sport that would drawf the inrease in anglers/developments during the 1970's and 80's rainbow/reservoir scene.
 
Z

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googled Hedge on a hunch, im definately missing something, how come with new technology we cant cast as far:confused:

exerpt; ''A Portland Oregon man, Marvin K. Hedge, won the fly rod distance event using a technique that was unknown to the other casters. This was the double haul. At that time the average of the three best of five casts was used to determine the winner and Marvin Hedge averaged 136 5/6 feet with a long cast of 147''

''By 1937 an average of 176 2/3 with a long cast of 183 was recorded in the national championships''


1937!!!
 

RPS

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googled Hedge on a hunch, im definately missing something, how come with new technology we cant cast as far:confused:

exerpt; ''A Portland Oregon man, Marvin K. Hedge, won the fly rod distance event using a technique that was unknown to the other casters. This was the double haul. At that time the average of the three best of five casts was used to determine the winner and Marvin Hedge averaged 136 5/6 feet with a long cast of 147''

''By 1937 an average of 176 2/3 with a long cast of 183 was recorded in the national championships''

1937!!!

http://www.overmywaders.com/extracts/SilkLinesbyWolframSchott.pdf

In 1938, after a visit by the American casting legend Marvin Hedge at Hardy's, the company introduced "Tournament" lines of 43 and 53 yards length, respectively, named "Marvin K. Hedge Taper". These lines were manufactured by the "SA Jones Line Company" of Norwich, NY, and stocked in 11 sizes, numbers 10, 12, 14, 16, 18, 20, 22, 26, 70, 75, 80, from "Fly Weight" to "Heavyweight Distance Tournament".​
 

Ron Clay

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As I said, Marvin was one hell of a caster.

As regards chucking a line into the wind, well mainly this is all a matter of technique and the strength of the wind. Speaking from personal experience, I can certainly cast an 8 weight line further and better into a wind than a 6 weight.

In both instances I would use the double haul and aim my cast: "under the wind" if you know what I mean. Jack Martin used to talk about casting under the wind which means back cast high and forward cast low.

And don't try to cast an 18 foot leader with two droppers into a strong wind. A 10 foot tapered leader with ONE fly will catch you lots more fish. To get the leader to turn over nicely at the end of the cast, dunk the rod tip in the water as the fly is just about to hit its target. Or you can have more shooting line out than you need and can stop the cast abruptly in the air.

When it's early season on a reservoir, the ability to throw into a strong wind will put many fish into your net, especially if the wind is a warm strong south westerly, blowing over cold water which sometimes causes a thermocline tilt towards you and all the big fish are feeding ravenously close to the shore. Use a slow sinking intermediate shooting head in these conditions.
 
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Guest108

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googled Hedge on a hunch, im definately missing something, how come with new technology we cant cast as far:confused:

exerpt; ''A Portland Oregon man, Marvin K. Hedge, won the fly rod distance event using a technique that was unknown to the other casters. This was the double haul. At that time the average of the three best of five casts was used to determine the winner and Marvin Hedge averaged 136 5/6 feet with a long cast of 147''

''By 1937 an average of 176 2/3 with a long cast of 183 was recorded in the national championships''


1937!!!

Would these casts have been effortless ?
 

Ron Clay

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To a man like Marvin Hedge - yes, although he probably put a bit of beef into it.

Tournament rods and lines are quite a bit different to the sort of tackle we use to catch fish. Even the best casters wouldn't want to send out a line all day like they do in a casting event.

I'm not a competitive caster, but I have spent time in the past watching these guys in order to pick up a few tips. Everything, both mentally and physically is put into those few minutes when they perform on the platform. They look decidedly shattered after perfoming their series of casts. Good luck to them is what I say, such exertions are not for me.

I go fly fishing for pleasure!
 
Z

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Would these casts have been effortless ?


no, i have seen an old clip of Marvin Hedge, its far from effortless,

we have however moved on in the materials we use and thanks to the likes of Hedge we understand technique, its now possible to cast over 100' with a lightweight 5 weight outfit, and to 75/80' with surprisingly little effort.
 

David Norwich

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no, i have seen an old clip of Marvin Hedge, its far from effortless,

we have however moved on in the materials we use and thanks to the likes of Hedge we understand technique, its now possible to cast over 100' with a lightweight 5 weight outfit, and to 75/80' with surprisingly little effort.


It's good to see Marvin has got some recognition in this country....:)

His cast was not effortless but according to the reports I have read, his style was very fluid. Do you have a link to that footage of him casting Zoomer?


If you scroll down this page you will see an original 1939/40 8ft 4inch Hedge rod. with it's built up thumb grip.



David.
 
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Guest108

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no, i have seen an old clip of Marvin Hedge, its far from effortless,

we have however moved on in the materials we use and thanks to the likes of Hedge we understand technique, its now possible to cast over 100' with a lightweight 5 weight outfit, and to 75/80' with surprisingly little effort.

Oh, little effort now then........... ok :D..... were getting there ;):D, i'll settle for that then.:D:joking:
 
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Z

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Oh, little effort now then........... ok :D..... were getting there ;):D, i'll settle for that then.

Fred, i use a 5 weight, rarely cast beyond 80' because presentation is poor and hookups less likely, i dont use much energy to do this.

David, the Marvin Hedge clip was posted on here.
 
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David Norwich

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David, the Marvin Hedge clip was posted on here.

Hi do you mean here as on this thread? I've just done a search on this thread I can't find anything. A search on the whole forum brings up nothing either?

Can you point me in the right direction please? I would really like to see that footage. There is nothing on you tube either. I have a lot of stuff on Hedge I have collected over the years articles and pictures, but no film of him casting



David.
 
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Ron Clay

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Some interesting things I have gleaned about Marvin Hedge.

He was a big, extremely well built man. He cast with a slightly closed stance with his shoulders as square onto the target as possible. This is unlike the top casters of today such as Steve Rajeff, who uses an open stance.
 
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