Casting practice; Do you ? Dont you? Is it nuts? (and thumbs up BFCC)

Whinging pom

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It should also be the aim to see this loop travel all the way down the line and through the leader (a well constructed leader helps). This is great practice for accuracy also.
James
As always thanks for the advice. My leader is usually for casting practice a 9’ tapered profil or Hardy I haven’t given it a huge amount of thought, just a good gradual taper.
What I notice, or might well be imagining is that where the loop to loop fixing is, something is going amiss at this point of the turn over.
In the past in this thread or another I’ve queried hinging, but actually looking at the nature of the join I realise it’s more likely to be a stiff area rather than a limp area with two tapered materials both doubled up and adding extra bulk and weight and Resistance to a small section at the finest end of the fly line.
I’m assuming if I’ve got this right that loop to loop hampers a smooth transition along to the leader and tippet and although convenient are actually detrimental to a smooth turn over.
Or am I over thinking this ( before I go round cutting the loops of everything).
Thanks for input and sharing your experience.
All best
Pom
 

Rhithrogena

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You can do this by tipping the tip over and still casting on the right, or crossing the hand over to the left shoulder
As a drill, I sometimes do similar but switch hands too. Plenty of time between back and forward casts to swap to the left hand. Very symmetrical actually....
You can swap to the other hand between strokes anywhere, casting cross body or slanting the rod; all good fun and very useful practice for dealing with cross winds (or if one shoulder gives you periodic gyp...)
No better way to grapple with off-hand casting....
 

Rhithrogena

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James
As always thanks for the advice. My leader is usually for casting practice a 9’ tapered profil or Hardy I haven’t given it a huge amount of thought, just a good gradual taper.
What I notice, or might well be imagining is that where the loop to loop fixing is, something is going amiss at this point of the turn over.
In the past in this thread or another I’ve queried hinging, but actually looking at the nature of the join I realise it’s more likely to be a stiff area rather than a limp area with two tapered materials both doubled up and adding extra bulk and weight and Resistance to a small section at the finest end of the fly line.
I’m assuming if I’ve got this right that loop to loop hampers a smooth transition along to the leader and tippet and although convenient are actually detrimental to a smooth turn over.
Or am I over thinking this ( before I go round cutting the loops of everything).
Thanks for input and sharing your experience.
All best
Pom
I think you are right regarding loop to loop joins Chris. I find a good compromise is to tie the leader butt to the fly line loop with a Grinner/Uni.
I used to needle knot the tapered leader direct to the fly line; this gives the best turnover (unless you trust the superglue splices) but this can eat into the taper after a few leader changes.
The Croston flyline loop construction method (whipped loop on stripped coating core) is a refinement of this method.
 

James9118

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James
As always thanks for the advice. My leader is usually for casting practice a 9’ tapered profil or Hardy I haven’t given it a huge amount of thought, just a good gradual taper.
What I notice, or might well be imagining is that where the loop to loop fixing is, something is going amiss at this point of the turn over.
In the past in this thread or another I’ve queried hinging, but actually looking at the nature of the join I realise it’s more likely to be a stiff area rather than a limp area with two tapered materials both doubled up and adding extra bulk and weight and Resistance to a small section at the finest end of the fly line.
I’m assuming if I’ve got this right that loop to loop hampers a smooth transition along to the leader and tippet and although convenient are actually detrimental to a smooth turn over.
Or am I over thinking this ( before I go round cutting the loops of everything).
Thanks for input and sharing your experience.
All best
Pom
Hi WP,

Have you run a micrometer over your 'gradual taper' leader? I'd love to find a shop bought, knotless leader with a truly gradual taper but every one I've measured (and I've measured lots) are actually just stepped i.e. level butt section, short tapered bit (maybe less than 1 foot) followed by level tippet.

There have been a couple of studies done on hinging that I'm aware off. One (done by myself) showed that if I just used a level leader of tippet material, then the front of the fly line 'tucked' on delivery (as seen on video). I suspect this wouldn't happen with a fat loop, but in my test with low-powered, tight loops the front end kicked like a mule.

The other test I remember (but can't find now - perhaps Lasse can help) was posted on Sexyloops and showed the loop unfurling in slow motion. Near the end of the fly line a section of PVC coating was removed so there was an inch or so of just 'core' present. Many anticipated that this section would cause 'hinging' - as far as I recall it made no difference to loop turn-over at all - it just rolled smoothly around the loop.

I suspect that a really stiff area could cause the loop to open up in the leader. Perhaps I should try and video this - I could put a 50lb leader (that I use for predators in saltwater) on the end of my #3 river outfit and see what happens.

Cheers, James
 
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Whinging pom

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Have you run a micrometer over your 'gradual taper' leader? I'd love to find a shop bought, knotless leader with a truly gradual taper but everyone I've measured (and I've measured lots) are actually just stepped i.e. level butt section, short tapered bit (maybe less than 1 foot) followed by level tippet.
Hi James
I’ll certainly try it.
I’d just been in Foxons to stock up before I saw you post . I would have got a variety to try out . It’s not something I’d ever thought of as I don’t use them in a fishing situation. (Furled leader and tippet snob!)

With the level leader did you come up with a theory as to that reaction ?

Be interesting to see what happens with your 50lb test it must be about as thick as the front end of a three wt?! ( it’s supposed to be 60% of the width of the end of the line it isn’t? )

By the way, on the original conundrum, is there anyway that two thicker diameters of loop to loop connections could act as a dampener?

all best
Pom
 

James9118

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Hi James
I’ll certainly try it.
I’d just been in Foxons to stock up before I saw you post . I would have got a variety to try out . It’s not something I’d ever thought of as I don’t use them in a fishing situation. (Furled leader and tippet snob!)

With the level leader did you come up with a theory as to that reaction ?

Be interesting to see what happens with your 50lb test it must be about as thick as the front end of a three wt?! ( it’s supposed to be 60% of the width of the end of the line it isn’t? )

By the way, on the original conundrum, is there anyway that two thicker diameters of loop to loop connections could act as a dampener?

all best
Pom
You should have let me know you were in the area - we could have met up for a cast, I live less than a 10min walk from Foxons. That said, even I'm not daft enough to stand out in a field casting in today's weather :)

The test where the fly-line kicked was very similar to when there's no leader attached at all when you look at what happens to the very end of the fly-line. In effect you need a leader to dissipate the excess energy that's in the line, and having one that doesn't have a big step-down in the linear mass distribution is best i.e. a taper.

I'm not sure of the answer to the loop to loop question. I suspect so long as there isn't a big change in linear mass, the fly casting loop wouldn't show much of an effect.

Cheers, James
 
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Whinging pom

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That would have been brilliant, I’d be a right little pain mining you for information though 😁.
It was certainly challenging outside today.

I’ve been trying to find the video you mentioned of the slow motion unfurling loop on Sexyloops but I find it so hard to trawl through without getting totally distracted … especially on a wet afternoon
Best
Pom
 

diawl bach

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I think you are right regarding loop to loop joins Chris. I find a good compromise is to tie the leader butt to the fly line loop with a Grinner/Uni.
I used to needle knot the tapered leader direct to the fly line; this gives the best turnover (unless you trust the superglue splices) but this can eat into the taper after a few leader changes.
I've flip flopped between nail knotting and loops for yonks but since the Chinese fly lines came on the market I'm far more gung-ho about changing nail knotted tapered leaders - knackered leaders get changed super prompt these days.
With a little practice you can reduce the waste to around 12mm - if that - and with Ecos at £4 a pop financial constraints simply don't apply thus removing that temptation to cut the thick part of tapered leaders off to create a neater loop.
 

PaulD

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My leader is usually for casting practice a 9’ tapered profil or Hardy I haven’t given it a huge amount of thought, just a good gradual taper.

Just to provide you with another source of distraction . . . Global Flyfisher's 'LeaderCalc' . . .

Stillwater fishing my usual practice is to nail knot 4ft of the butt end of a 9ft, 4X tapered leader, ending in a tippet ring, to my fly line and then 'build the leader, with droppers, from that but on rivers and streams, where turnover, accuracy and presentation is critical, I much prefer knotted tapered leaders, sourced from Leadercalc.

Knotted leaders.jpg
 

Whinging pom

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Just to provide you with another source of distraction . . . Global Flyfisher's 'LeaderCalc' . . .

Stillwater fishing my usual practice is to nail knot 4ft of the butt end of a 9ft, 4X tapered leader, ending in a tippet ring, to my fly line and then 'build the leader, with droppers, from that but on rivers and streams, where turnover, accuracy and presentation is critical, I much prefer knotted tapered leaders, sourced from Leadercalc.
Paul thanks
Wow that's quite a resource ( the global fly fisher site !)

So let me get this right you choose the taper specifics and length and save it in you basket, then they print out a label with your name at the bottom and send them through?! how much do they cost?

You know my Rod and have seen what I'm trying to achieve in practice with my bit of yarn
. What do you think I should be using?
I just bought these , interested to know what would be more suitable
CBA96CC9-1684-4803-83DC-291B32A112CF.jpeg
all best
The pom
 

PaulD

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Paul thanks
Wow that's quite a resource ( the global fly fisher site !)

So let me get this right you choose the taper specifics and length and save it in you basket, then they print out a label with your name at the bottom and send them through?! how much do they cost?

I've mislead you!

Global Flyfisher's LeaderCalc simply provides the tapers, the relative diameters and lengths of nylon to lead you the eventual leader length and tippet size . . . the label etc is my own work . . . me being
a touch obsessive!

I do have a major collection of nylon in all the appropriate 'X' sizes.
 

Whinging pom

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Have you run a micrometer over your 'gradual taper' leader? I'd love to find a shop bought, knotless leader with a truly gradual taper but every one I've measured (and I've measured lots) are actually just stepped i.e. level butt section, short tapered bit (maybe less than 1 foot) followed by level tippet.
Hi James
I ran it over two lines The profil has just come off the rod and it missing the very end foot or so, that inexplicably gathered rather a lot of knots :rolleyes:.
The Hardy is the one pictured above.
Profil ------------- Hardy
-- --------- -——- 10' 0.24
8' 0.21 ------------- 9' 0.24
7' 0.20 ------------- 8' 0.24
6' 0.19 ------------- 7' 0.24
5' 0.17 ------------- 6' 0.24
4' 0.12 -------------- 5' 0.22
3' 0.10 -------------- 4' 0.18
2' 0.10 -------------- 3' 0.10
---------------------- 2' 0.10
---------------------- 1' 0.10

hope that makes some sense.. The Hardy is as you described ( and recommended by Renee) as an alternative to the usual Profil that has a taper through to the tippet...what’s left of it !
Bit of an eye opener
All best
Pom
 
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Whinging pom

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I've mislead you!

Global Flyfisher's LeaderCalc simply provides the tapers, the relative diameters and lengths of nylon to lead you the eventual leader length and tippet size . . . the label etc is my own work . . . me being
a touch obsessive!

I do have a major collection of nylon in all the appropriate 'X' sizes.
I cant see any joins in the Borger.... I thought it was a manufactured taper.:)


Like you fly boxes eh?! ....absolutely immaculate!
 

Whinging pom

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Dumb question from the Pom No.#497
I’ve been reading about the problems of practicing with fluff for accuracy over a competition fly?! !!!
Is there a standard competition fly ?
is there a standard pattern and size ?
Many thanks
The dunce in the corner
Pom
 

geenomad

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Is there a standard competition fly ?
is there a standard pattern and size ?
Will leave it to the guys who know better than me about competition flies. FWIW I've played around with practice flies a bit, including snipping off bends and barbs. Never quite thought fluff was enough like the real deal. Have settled on synthetic builders string in orange and pink which has a bit of weight, especially when wet.

Double the orange string and slip a single length of pink in between the arms. Leaving about a 5mm loop, wrap and whip finish with hefty tying thread. Finish with super glue (soaks in) and cover the wrap with UV resin. Trim to desired length. Mine are about 30mm, loop included. Very durable and visible.

Cheers
Mark
 

Whinging pom

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Double the orange string and slip a single length of pink in between the arms. Leaving about a 5mm loop, wrap and whip finish with hefty tying thread. Finish with super glue (soaks in) and cover the wrap with UV resin. Trim to desired length. Mine are about 30mm, loop included. Very durable and visible.
I’m intrigued by this any chance of sending a photo
all the best Pom
 

Whinging pom

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I have developed an annoying tendency of a W wiggle on my rod leg with a barreling loop looking like it's attempting to catch the lower leg.
If I tighten up and concentrate a better-shaped loop appears where the wiggle flattens to a hump I have a pointed upper loop and a dead straight fly leg but then every so often ill throw one of these monstrosities to remind me I'm a waste of good carbon fibre and have to thank god that no ones watching!

Anybody else suffered from this damnation and knows what I'm doing wrong?
53CB912B-BA4D-483F-90DE-8C472EA80E08.jpeg


Thanks for anyone kind enough to give a suggestion of what is probably the bleeding obvious!
All best Pom

Edit: Im casting in the 20-25 m zone and using a small snappy double haul.
 
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