casts hitting line!!

nakednutt

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I've noticed recently that when i'm casting and shoot the line out that my flies hit my fly line quite a lot. It never used to be an issue. Has anyone any tips that may help stop this?
 

trouble_haul

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Yes, spend an hour with a casting instructor. Any other diagnosis on the forum is at best intelligent speculation.
 

BobP

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It's called a tailing loop.

Oddly enough, and I can't really figure out why, I am prone to tailing loops if I use one particular rod - an 8' 4 weight. If I try to do a longer than normal cast I can almost guarantee a tailing loop. Put the same line, leader and fly on a 9' rod and no tailing loops occur. Very strange.
 
R

River Fly

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I could be wrong here but I think that tailing loops are caused by the casting stroke not being in a straight line as in from the rod tip right through to the fly.

I've had a monumental amount of TLs in the past and still get them now and again.

Is there anyway that you can record yourself casting? You can then play it back and go from there.
 

beryl

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This happens to me if I try to force the cast, into the wind typically. The result is knots in the tippet/ leader. I assume this is where the term 'wind knot' comes from?
 

beryl

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There is more than a glimmer of a solution in that statement:whistle::D

I know it but still do it. I have the learning capacity of a Barbary ape. To punish them the are being sent to Scotland apparently?
 

ohanzee

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I know it but still do it. I have the learning capacity of a Barbary ape. To punish them the are being sent to Scotland apparently?

They get served in the pubs here:D

You can of course use as much force as you want if its timed correctly, that is at the end of the stroke and not at the beginning.
 

spider316

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I saw Glenda Powell at flyfest in cumbria a couple of weeks back. She was asked about tailing loops and demonstrated how this is most often caused by "creep".
"Creep" is when, after making the stop on the back cast, the rod creeps forward before the forward stroke is made.
She clearly showed, by purposefully creeping the rod forward, that this caused a tailing loop. Yet, when she held the rod still before making the forward cast, the tailing loop vanished.
She taught a simple trick to avoid creep. Make the back cast, stop the rod, then scream "don't move" !!!!
I've tried it myself and it really is true. Creep the rod, tailing loop. Don't creep, no tailing loop.
 

andygrey

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I saw Glenda Powell at flyfest in cumbria a couple of weeks back. She was asked about tailing loops and demonstrated how this is most often caused by "creep".
"Creep" is when, after making the stop on the back cast, the rod creeps forward before the forward stroke is made.
She clearly showed, by purposefully creeping the rod forward, that this caused a tailing loop. Yet, when she held the rod still before making the forward cast, the tailing loop vanished.
She taught a simple trick to avoid creep. Make the back cast, stop the rod, then scream "don't move" !!!!
I've tried it myself and it really is true. Creep the rod, tailing loop. Don't creep, no tailing loop.

Or even better learn to drift!

Cheers

Andy
 

spider316

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Or even better learn to drift!

Essentially, creeping backwards !!

The italian style of casting uses this as standard. The rod doesn't actually pause or remain stationary. The backcast goes in and the the rod is drifted back until the forward cast is made. In this instance it is called "vibration dampening". The drift is used immediately after the back cast stop to "reduce rod bounce and help stop tailing loops".
Quoting from Massimo's website there !!
 

andygrey

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Essentially, creeping backwards !!

Pretty much yes, though it's a good idea to visualise it as an upward movement of the elbow. If you push your hand back you will more than likely pull the rod leg down with the tip rather than tracking along it's path (which is what you want to do ideally).
Bit of a simplification but give it a go. Try it on the forward cast as well, it's much easier than the back!

Andy
 

spider316

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It's something I do pretty much as standard anyway.
That said, I should say "it's something I thought I did as standard anyway".

I took my new go pro out with me last week to try it out and filmed myself casting. One of those nightmare evenings when nothing seems to go how you want it to.
Quick review of the video showed the rod creeping before the forward cast. I was drifting no problem ... for a bit, then creeping forward !! Laziness and bad habits I guess and an embarrassing video review !!
It was the following day when I saw Glenda's show and while I knew creep was not good, I didn't put that and tailing loops together.
Video camera definately a good tool to scrutinise casts .... obviously not as good as having a casting instructor on hand though !!!
 

wishiwasfishin

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Mike heritage gave me a tip at the bfcc meet last Sunday. "Chase the loop". Accelerate into the back cast, make a stop, then follow the loop back with the rod tip. You are effectively learning to drift, and it overcomes creep, as described above. Smooth, late application of power in the forward cast, getting some "snap" at the end, also helps overcome tailing loops. Steve parkes described it to me as trying to break the rod when really going for distance. For us mere mortals it's the golfing equivalent of a late hit.
 

torrotxo

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I saw Glenda Powell at flyfest in cumbria a couple of weeks back. She was asked about tailing loops and demonstrated how this is most often caused by "creep".
"Creep" is when, after making the stop on the back cast, the rod creeps forward before the forward stroke is made.
She clearly showed, by purposefully creeping the rod forward, that this caused a tailing loop. Yet, when she held the rod still before making the forward cast, the tailing loop vanished.
She taught a simple trick to avoid creep. Make the back cast, stop the rod, then scream "don't move" !!!!
I've tried it myself and it really is true. Creep the rod, tailing loop. Don't creep, no tailing loop.
Well, most of the tailing loops demos I have seen show tails that aren't actually related to the cause invoked.

Just creeping doesn't necessarily creates tailing loops:

https://vimeo.com/32865261
 

karlsson

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Hi Aitor

What would happen If that guy in your clip threw a 1 foot loop in his backcast instead of the 6 footer so it more mirrored the loop in the forward cast?

And I agree with you by the way!

Cheer
Lasse
 

bill1

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She taught a simple trick to avoid creep. Make the back cast, stop the rod, then scream "don't move" !!!!

I tried that on my local river. Four Hoodies and a Rottie hit the deck and a shopping trolley full of cigarettes went into the river.
 

torrotxo

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Hi Aitor

What would happen If that guy in your clip threw a 1 foot loop in his backcast instead of the 6 footer so it more mirrored the loop in the forward cast?

And I agree with you by the way!

Cheer
Lasse

With the one foot loop problems for sure, Lasse. But that did happen. :thumbs:
 

Guest666

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He gets away with it on the video because he takes out the slack in a controlled way. If he panicked and accelerated quickly then it would tail. For me, the tail is caused by a high rate of application of force on the rod tip and there are a lot of faults that cause it. I have made a hobby out of collecting them :D
 

spider316

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Just creeping doesn't necessarily creates tailing loops

I agree. There are many causes of tailing loops. I brought up the creep issue purely because I saw it in a demo last week, so it's fresh in my mind.

Best answer to fixing casting faults is to get out with an instructor. They will iron out in ten minutes what it may take you years to suss out for yourself.
 
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