casts hitting line!!

ohanzee

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a high rate of application of force on the rod tip

Is there a reason for using long drawn out sentences for 'too much force'?

You could have used the extra words to say 'too early in the stroke'.

I hate overworders.
 

wishiwasfishin

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A casting instructor will identify in 10 mins what you would spend a lifetime trying to figure out yourself, then you will spend a lifetime wishing you had the time to practice your casting, and carry on with your old mistakes. Good advice and practice cures casting faults
 

andygrey

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Well, most of the tailing loops demos I have seen show tails that aren't actually related to the cause invoked.

Just creeping doesn't necessarily creates tailing loops:

https://vimeo.com/32865261

Interesting clip. Having watched it a few times now I don't think that the hand is creeping forward as such, rather the wrist is rotating. This is clearer in the second cast. He is breaking his wrist on his back cast (the cause of the big loop. There is also a fair amount of body rotation leading to a lateral loop) so all the is happening is the wrist is rotating back to it's 'proper' position before the start of the forward casting stroke. The forward casting stroke is not shortened. I wouldn't say this is actually creep as such.
This is why I think it's important to teach drift through a raising of the elbow rather than 'pushing the hand back', which can result in rotating the wrist in some cases.
Just my thoughts, would be interested to hear other peoples take on it.
 
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wishiwasfishin

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There are only 2 evolutionary reasons for grass to exist. One is to create river banks, the other is to create flat areas to practice casting on.
Any other use (pasture, etc) is purely accidental.
 

Guest666

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Is there a reason for using long drawn out sentences for 'too much force'?

You could have used the extra words to say 'too early in the stroke'.

I hate overworders.

"Rate of application" does not mean "too much force" or "too early in the stroke". I don't thing that there is an "overwording" descripiton for "too stupid to be allowed to breed".
 

Guest666

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Interesting clip. Having watched it a few times now I don't think that the hand is creeping forward as such, rather the wrist is rotating. This is clearer in the second cast. He is breaking his wrist on his back cast (the cause of the big loop. There is also a fair amount of body rotation leading to a lateral loop) so all the is happening is the wrist is rotating back to it's 'proper' position before the start of the forward casting stroke. The forward casting stroke is not shortened. I wouldn't say this is actually creep as such.
This is why I think it's important to teach drift through a raising of the elbow rather than 'pushing the hand back', which can result in rotating the wrist in some cases.
Just my thoughts, would be interested to hear other peoples take on it.

I can see what you are saying but isn't creep the movemetn of the rod tip rather than the hand?
 

ohanzee

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"Rate of application" does not mean "too much force" or "too early in the stroke". I don't thing that there is an "overwording" descripiton for "too stupid to be allowed to breed".

Then what does 'a high rate of application of power' mean? even vaguely.
 

andygrey

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VGB

I can see what you are saying but isn't creep the movemetn of the rod tip rather than the hand?

Yes good point.
One quite common definition is 'starting the forward stroke early' or similar. The guy casting In the video has a wrist break at the end of the back cast and subsequent re-rotation at the start of the forward so yes he is starting his forward cast early, the arc is being 'crept forward' but the stroke is not being shortened so he's getting away with it. This is effectively 2 casting faults in one. I'd prefer to see an example where the wrists stays locked but the hand creeps forward.

EDIT!!!
Just found this GAIA definition... So spot on Vince.

Creep:
A casting Fault. The premature movement of the rod tip in the opposite direction of the unfurling loop, which results in the shortening of the next casting stroke and a closing of the casting arc.
 
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James9118

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The premature movement of the rod tip in the opposite direction of the unfurling loop, which results in the shortening of the next casting stroke and a closing of the casting arc.

I think this definition would be better with the word 'unintentional' put before "premature movement".

Cheers, James
 

beryl

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One can feel a casting war comment thread in yer waters after a while on here. Personally, rarely casting more than thirty feet in a jungle of tree-lined streams I find it all a bit academic. You wave yer arm about a bit and it lands eventually where you want it too. Just learn to do it quickly. A line straightened downstream, if correctly judged lengthwise, is far better than all this false casting stuff. It bypasses quite neatly the tailing loop issue and only gives you one chance to catch a tree trout. Also the drag loads the rod for the forward cast. It's casting for dummies and I like it....
 
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andygrey

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One can feel a casting war comment thread in yer waters after a while on here. Personally, rarely casting more than thirty feet in a jungle of tree-lined streams I find it all a bit academic. You wave yer arm about a bit and it lands eventually where you want it too. Just learn to do it quickly. A line straightened downstream, if correctly judged lengthwise, is far better than all this false casting stuff. It bypasses quite neatly the tailing loop issue. Also the drag loads the rod for the forward cast. It's casting for dummies and I like it....

Also know as a Water Haul. As you say a very simple and practical 'fishing' cast.

Cheers

Andy
 

Guest666

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I think this definition would be better with the word 'unintentional' put before "premature movement".

Cheers, James

Both unintentional and premature happen to the best of us James :D

---------- Post added at 07:08 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:06 PM ----------

Agree with you beryl about keeping down the false casts but tails happen in the tight streams when you wind down your loop size
 

beryl

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Also know as a Water Haul. As you say a very simple and practical 'fishing' cast.

Cheers

Andy

Haha. Thanks, nice to put a name to it. I didn't expect it to be new, but I like to pick this knowledge up often by accident.. Its nice to uncover stuff for yourself but it's tempting to feast on everyone's experience.

Case in point. I have been fishing some free ponds that have desirable fish. They aren't stocked so you don't have so many fish per meter. I have tried to gather them together with a feast of bread and sweetcorn. Day four of two loaves of Lidls finest white & brown with some smached corn is off due to the weather. Three days with two baited and still not a touch? Standard practise not producing.

I'll give it a week.:)
 
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taterdu

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Also know as a Water Haul. As you say a very simple and practical 'fishing' cast.

Cheers

Andy

The point of 'learning to cast' is to know what 'should happen' so that when 'what should' happen can't happen, you're skilled enough to make an adjustment that still enables you to put a fly in front of a fish.
 

Paul_B

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When on the back cast feel for the weight of the line, by the time you react to it and start the forward cast the leader will also have straightened out.

When you feel the weight of the line the rod will be under strain from the weight of the line, as you start your forward cast the rod is under even greater strain.
As you stop the forward cast this force will travel from the rod into the line giving it greater distance and better presentation (once you've stopped the rod, lower it gently out of harms way).

A fly rod is a wonderful thing we shouldn't use it like a stick

Jedi flyfishers who learnt from the master Ob1 Wan Kenobi have our own saying to remind us.


,
 

beryl

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I don't think you ever feel the rod loading on the back cast on my 3# or under, even with the soft rods I use. It's all about learning timing for the length of line out.
 

geenomad

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Just creeping doesn't necessarily creates tailing loops:

I hesitate to go for another dip in the murk of tailing loop debates but.....

I too struggle to see how creep, in and of itself, would cause a tailing loop on the forward cast. OTOH I can see creep being associated with overpowering - dip in the tip and such. Symptom and disease thing.

I'm not even convinced that a bit of creep is inherently a bad thing. Given a choice between maintaining tension and eliminating any possibility of creep or line drop, I'll take tension. Talking in the field here, not the lab. Optimal v. Ideal.

If creep causes a tailing loop it should do it in both directions. Hands up all those with tails on the backcast. :)

Cheers
Mark
 

taterdu

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I don't think you ever feel the rod loading on the back cast on my 3# or under, even with the soft rods I use. It's all about learning timing for the length of line out.

In as much as using a 3wt and under often involves casting a very short line in cramped conditions that's unsurprising when the '3' still relates to 30ft of line.
 
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