casts hitting line!!

andygrey

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I hesitate to go for another dip in the murk of tailing loop debates but.....

I too struggle to see how creep, in and of itself, would cause a tailing loop on the forward cast. OTOH I can see creep being associated with overpowering - dip in the tip and such. Symptom and disease thing.

I'm not even convinced that a bit of creep is inherently a bad thing. Given a choice between maintaining tension and eliminating any possibility of creep or line drop, I'll take tension. Talking in the field here, not the lab. Optimal v. Ideal.

If creep causes a tailing loop it should do it in both directions. Hands up all those with tails on the backcast. :)

Cheers
Mark

Creep will only lead to a tailing loop if it reduces the casting arc beyond the minimum required to make the cast without the rod tip dipping below the straight line path.
People rarely creep on at the start of the back cast as they can see the line unfurling in front of them.
Plenty of people tail on the backcast, though they get away with it as you don't often see loops as tight on the back cast as you do on the forward cast so the rod and fly leg don't collide.

Andy
 

beryl

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In as much as using a 3wt and under often involves casting a very short line in cramped conditions that's unsurprising when the '3' still relates to 30ft of line.

But I have enough room often enough to stand by my original statement. Oddly, I recently tried a three wt that I could actually feel the back cast loading. It was the Atom Six small-stream jobby. It was a new,modern design with latest materials. So, being as I either use fibreglass or old carbon rods in the main I could be wrong. Just not for the reason you stated.

I rarely stray onto casting questions. Which just goes to show my inherent common sense :D
 

James9118

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Pre-loading the forward cast from the back-cast is, in my opinion, a crock. I've seen very, very few videos of casts where any pre-load is 'picked-up' and maintained through the forward casting stroke.

Aitor or Lasse will be along soon to show the one video that does show it :D:thumbs:.
 

Guest666

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Pre-loading the forward cast from the back-cast is, in my opinion, a crock. I've seen very, very few videos of casts where any pre-load is 'picked-up' and maintained through the forward casting stroke.

Aitor or Lasse will be along soon to show the one video that does show it :D:thumbs:.

The rod will always start to unload during the forward stroke regardless of your casting stroke, its impossible to maintain. But having the rod bent at the start of the stroke does allow you to accelerate earlier, however, you achieve that by a properly timed pause at the end of a stroke not by creeping. That said, I think any benefit is marginal because you can get better results by drifting and increasing the hand path
 

BobP

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I still don't see why it should only happen consistently on the one rod I own out of several. Doesn't happen on the 10' 4, 5 & 6 weights, the 9' 4 & 5 weights. It's just that 8' 4 weight that I have a problem with. I really don't see that my casting action, cr*p though it may be, should differ enough to make the difference.
 

andygrey

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Have you tried it with a different line?
And does the 8' rod feel appreciably softer than the 9' and 10'?
 
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BobP

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Andy,

It's a Hardy Uniqua. Quite a snappy little rod. The others are Sage Z Axis, XP, Fulling Mill Gold Medal, Scierra, Orvis Western 2, a Greys and a Wychwood.

At short to medium distances the Hardy is fine, but as soon as I push it a bit further.........!

Very annoying - to the point at which I don't actually want to use the thing.
 

andygrey

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I should preface this by saying it's very difficult to make casting diagnostic without actually seeing you cast...
You say this happens when you go past 'medium' distances. This sounds like the cast could be collapsing on the back cast.
Shorter rods can need you to modify your casting stroke more than longer ones when you start to extend more head outside the tip. This is of course dependant on the action and line profile but only a thought.

Andy
 

trouble_haul

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It could also be that you are trying to give it some "welly" when going for distance and having an excessive application of power.
 

James9118

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But having the rod bent at the start of the stroke does allow you to accelerate earlier, however, you achieve that by a properly timed pause at the end of a stroke not by creeping.

How do you get the rod bent at the start of the stroke?
 

beryl

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Also know as a Water Haul. As you say a very simple and practical 'fishing' cast.

Cheers

Andy

I didn't know that but was pleased to know it when it came up on NCA,s Pinkshirmp video. I normally don't read casting threads as my casting needs aren't demanding. Knots in my tippet/leader I didn't tie don't lose the fish I'm after, but do offend me aesthetically.

This thread has got me interested in tidying up my casting just enough to avoid them. There are also some carefully crafted posts, I think I am getting what is being talked about for a change. The instructors get to hone there skills at communicating their knowledge and I get a freebee; what's not to like:thumbs:

Joking aside, some excellent posts and you know who you are....
 

James9118

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The line is still pulling on the rod after the stop, there is very little time in the cast when the line and rod are simaltaneously stationary.

Yes, but you've completely missed the point of my previous post. Some are implying they can pick up, and maintain the 'impulse' that happens when the line straightens.

The bend you're talking about is indicative of tension in the rod-leg and is so small as to be insignificant when it comes to loading the rod going forward.
 

Guest666

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Okay, I can see the posts you are talking about, I tend to skim over the spring recovering energy stuff. The winter evenings are still not here :D

The bend you're talking about is indicative of tension in the rod-leg and is so small as to be insignificant when it comes to loading the rod going forward.

and going backwards?
 
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