casts hitting line!!

karlsson

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I would agree with that, i have no idea what point you were trying to make now:D

Something we agree on, and then you muddy the waters again :thumbs:


If your 'preload' cannot be exploited what is the point of mentioning it?

Who said it couldn't be exploited?

But i would say that 'creep' rather than being defined by whether we mean it or not, is rather crucially defined by which direction you do it, the former tells you whether its a casting fault, the latter tells you what it is in the first place:D

Cool, so I unfortunately make a too big casting angle on my backcast (like the gentleman in Aitor's good video) I drift forward to lessen my casting angle because I want to throw a nice tight loop horisontally forward.. You then tell me I'm a daft ****** and are creeping :thumbs:

I'm going to add something for you to rip at, i use preload, and i also creep, and from what i can see the best casters in the world do also, they do of course use these with critical timing and to their advantage, i suspect you also do,

Preload is the rod bending before you bend it more by moving it in the opposite direction, i don't need movie clips or confusing words for anyone to understand this because its not that complicated,

With finite timing we can move the rod tip in the opposite direction from the line and increase rather than decrease the rod bend, i'd say thats exploiting preload, and i'd say we all do it to some degree, intentional creep if you like,

Where the real intention comes from in practical reality is preparing to do this, by sliding the rod tip with the line back or forward to where your tensioning creep can begin, the end of this movement is a fusion, as every move is maybe with the next

I don't think there is anything in this that you would disagree with? but i sometimes feel you would rather find something to argue with than build constructively on it.

Preload happens when the line is finished unrolling, creeping would be something you do while it is unrolling, so calling it creeping here seems like something wrong to do... Drift seems like a much better definition for something we mean to do, to get a better result...


Here I am arguing to build a better understanding, but you probably think I'm just trying to pick on you...

Creep is basicly the only fault that is named, and the originator really wouldn't like for it to be something good, but you can argue that with him if you want, I'll gladly send you his email.

Cheers
Lasse
 

ohanzee

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What benefit are you gaining from preload Alan?

You brought it up, Lasse posted a movie of it, all i was trying to establish is why?

Can no one just answer a straight question with an answer that makes sense? what is this bizarre casting communication where half answers and unintelligible complexity takes the place of someone that knows how to do the thing just saying it?

i'll say then you can all make fault with it if you like,

I don't call it preload, i call it the rod bending, its what rods do when the line stretches out,
I like line tension, so i try with finite timing to begin the return before the rod straightens, add bend to the bit of bend thats there sort of thing, you can call this intentional creep if you like, i call it the forward stroke starting, i don't run out of rod arc so i'm happy that a get the moment right,
A drift is handy just before this point which is in the direction of the extending cast to give me a wee bit more lead in the way forward, same both ways.

Does this answer your question?
 

ohanzee

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Alan that is how you do it but why do you do it

Line tension, it is in there, i aim for a flat level trajectory back and front as my default setting, the above keeps the back cast up and line tension keeps it all one flowing movement.
 

andygrey

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Rod bending doesn't cause line tension, with the 170 you get high line tension with a virtually straight rod

Nope, it line tension that causes rod bending.

I confess to being a bit lost on all this now but surely what we should be aiming to achieve is to maintain the counter flex from the end of the back cast into the start of the forward cast so that the rod does not go back to RSP2. This will help to reduce the counter flex wave in the rod leg and maintain line tension.

Andy
 

ohanzee

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Rod bending doesn't cause line tension, with the 170 you get high line tension with a virtually straight rod

Rod bending maintains line tension, thats why we use rods that flex, it makes it easier for us to do that.

I personally don't use 170 and straight rods in my minds eye when i think about these things?
 

James9118

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but surely what we should be aiming to achieve is to maintain the counter flex from the end of the back cast into the start of the forward cast so that the rod does not go back to RSP2

Hi Andy,

I don't think this is possible, in a normal overhead cast max counter-flex occurs not very long after the line first overtakes the tip. If you tried to maintain it you'd be cracking a whip like a lion tamer.

Here's a game for everyone to try: http://www.humanbenchmark.com/tests/reactiontime

I score around 300ms
 
Last edited:

andygrey

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Hi Andy,

I don't think this is possible, in a normal overhead cast max counter-flex occurs not very long after the line first overtakes the tip. If you tried to maintain it you'd be cracking a whip like a lion tamer.

Good point well argued!

Andy
 

Guest666

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Rod bending maintains line tension, thats why we use rods that flex, it makes it easier for us to do that.

I personally don't use 170 and straight rods in my minds eye when i think about these things?

We use rods that flex to make it easier to rotate and increase stroke length. If you are tipping the rod back beyond the vertical you are reducing the force on the tip and the rod bend. Try and find a video of someone doing what you are suggesting
 

Guest666

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Nope, it line tension that causes rod bending.

I confess to being a bit lost on all this now but surely what we should be aiming to achieve is to maintain the counter flex from the end of the back cast into the start of the forward cast so that the rod does not go back to RSP2. This will help to reduce the counter flex wave in the rod leg and maintain line tension.

Andy

To a degree that's what I believe happens on the back cast but it reduces the effective rod length It's what I was trying to show with the still photos.
 

ohanzee

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Hi Andy,

I don't think this is possible, in a normal overhead cast max counter-flex occurs not very long after the line first overtakes the tip. If you tried to maintain it you'd be cracking a whip like a lion tamer.

I'd have to see the tip react in slow mo to be sure but i'm fairly certain we do it frequently, false casting a short line for example, and possibly just casting very smoothly or where we rotate the tip round and return rather than stop and pause.
 

ohanzee

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We use rods that flex to make it easier to rotate and increase stroke length

Indeed they do, they also allow you to maintain line tension between back and forward casts and vice versa, or at least more so and easier than a rod that doesn't bend.
 

James9118

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I'd have to see the tip react in slow mo to be sure but i'm fairly certain we do it frequently, false casting a short line for example, and possibly just casting very smoothly or where we rotate the tip round and return rather than stop and pause.

Only for a constant tension cast like an oval, otherwise no chance. See where the loop is in this video when the rod is at MCF.

[ame=http://vimeo.com/42067314]Pullback and counterflex on Vimeo[/ame]
 

ohanzee

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Only for a constant tension cast like an oval, otherwise no chance. See where the loop is in this video when the rod is at MCF.

Interesting, makes sense, i wouldn't get a wave in the rod leg if it didn't,

But we can cast with constant tension also, just overhead rather than an oval cast, or rather an imperceptibly tight oval, the same thing may be happening but it must be to a lesser degree.
 

karlsson

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[ame="https://vimeo.com/14809710"]https://vimeo.com/14809710[/ame]

Not much time to react from max counterflex to RSP2

[ame="https://vimeo.com/26512805"]https://vimeo.com/26512805[/ame]

170 type thing

[ame="https://vimeo.com/4795941"]https://vimeo.com/4795941[/ame]

Maintaining tension with very stiff rod

[ame="https://vimeo.com/4790364"]https://vimeo.com/4790364[/ame]

Very stiff rod 170 type thing...

Cheers
Lasse
 

torrotxo

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Only for a constant tension cast like an oval, otherwise no chance. See where the loop is in this video when the rod is at MCF.
James,

I think that we would see the same with an oval. In fact I don't know where that "constant tension" motto comes from.
 

James9118

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James,

I think that we would see the same with an oval. In fact I don't know where that "constant tension" motto comes from.

Hi Aitor,

Have you got a slo-mo of an oval? I've just been wafting an MPR about and I'm not sure, doesn't immediately look like I get RSP2 though.

All the best, James
 
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