Copolymer to fluorocarbon

Rhithrogena

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Erm, that is what the OP is wanting to do... :unsure:
Yep, so I added the 'off-topic' edit when I realised what a rookie error I had made. So's everyone can see I had nothing relevant to contribute but weighed in anyway.
I obviously should have said 'I have no need to join nylon to fluoro but if I did I would use a figure 8' 😉
 

AndrewL

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Bear in mind, the two 'types' of leader are nylon and fluorocarbon. Copolymer is not a 'type', if you want to compare it with fluorocarbon. Fluorocarbon is homopolymeric in construction and, as far as we know, most or all, of the nylon we use is copolymeric in construction. So, if you want to join apples to oranges, you are talking about joining nylon to fluorocarbon, or else you are talking about joining homopolymer to copolymer. The latter will just have folk scratching their heads. 🤪

Carry on... 😜

Col
Thanks for that. I always was under the impression that originally we had basic monofilament line and then these fancy names appeared for more modern and higher spec. lines called/sold as copolymer and fluorocarbon.
 

Cap'n Fishy

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Thanks for that. I always was under the impression that originally we had basic monofilament line and then these fancy names appeared for more modern and higher spec. lines called/sold as copolymer and fluorocarbon.

The biggest difference between nylon and fluorocarbon is the density...

(Pure) Water sg = 1.00
Nylon sg = 1.05 to 1.10
Fluoro sg = 1.75 to 1.90

Hold a piece of nylon and a piece of fluoro of equal diameters under the surface of a bucket of tap water and let them go and the fluoro will sink at 3 times the speed of the nylon. Another difference is the tendency to stick in the surface film when landing on a flat calm stillwater. Despite its higher density, fluoro is worse than nylon for sticking in the surface interface!

Both nylon and fluoro come in more standard types and 'higher spec' types. It is important to know which you have in your hands, because they have different properties. A common one among 'high-specs' is having a higher breaking strain for the diameter, but at the expense of being more prone to shock breaks. Standard fluoro is also more prone to shock breaks than standard nylon.

May I ask why you want to join nylon to fluorocarbon?

Col
 

AndrewL

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The biggest difference between nylon and fluorocarbon is the density...

(Pure) Water sg = 1.00
Nylon sg = 1.05 to 1.10
Fluoro sg = 1.75 to 1.90

Hold a piece of nylon and a piece of fluoro of equal diameters under the surface of a bucket of tap water and let them go and the fluoro will sink at 3 times the speed of the nylon. Another difference is the tendency to stick in the surface film when landing on a flat calm stillwater. Despite its higher density, fluoro is worse than nylon for sticking in the surface interface!

Both nylon and fluoro come in more standard types and 'higher spec' types. It is important to know which you have in your hands, because they have different properties. A common one among 'high-specs' is having a higher breaking strain for the diameter, but at the expense of being more prone to shock breaks. Standard fluoro is also more prone to shock breaks than standard nylon.

May I ask why you want to join nylon to fluorocarbon?

Col
I have put a tapered leader (to trial) on one of my lines and it happens to be copolymer according to the packet. My tippet spools are all fluorocarbon.
 

Cap'n Fishy

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I have put a tapered leader (to trial) on one of my lines and it happens to be copolymer according to the packet. My tippet spools are all fluorocarbon.

I would use the tippet ring connection as suggested by others, but I see you don't like them. I would maybe put a loop in the end of the tapered leader, and then just do a loop to loop connection to your tippet. It will save shortening the tapered leader every time you change your tippet.

Col
 

AndrewL

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I would use the tippet ring connection as suggested by others, but I see you don't like them. I would maybe put a loop in the end of the tapered leader, and then just do a loop to loop connection to your tippet. It will save shortening the tapered leader every time you change your tippet.

Col

Thanks, good idea about loops. Just to clarify, it’s only on small dries that tippet rings give me problems (maybe previous suggestion of greasing them is feasible) I do however use them for all my nymph fishing


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Cap'n Fishy

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Thanks, good idea about loops. Just to clarify, it’s only on small dries that tippet rings give me problems (maybe previous suggestion of greasing them is feasible) I do however use them for all my nymph fishing


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I had a set-up for a while that included a tippet ring at the end of a tapered leader. Never had any problems with it. However, the tapered leader was only about 5 foot, with a thick end, while the leader was a 12 foot long, 2-fly rig for stillwater dry fly fishing and was itself tapered... Four feet of 8 lb Maxima, joined to 2 foot of 0.18/0.16 mm low-diameter/high tech nylon, to the dropper, joined to 6 feet of 0.16/0.14 mm of same. So, the tippet ring was 6 feet from dropper/12 feet from tail. At the end of a day, I disposed of everything on the sharp side of the tippet ring.

My current set up is the same, except I don't need a tippet ring, because the tapered leader I use is an Orvis one that has a built-in loop at the end, so I just put a loop in the 8 lb Maxima and join loop to loop.

Maybe if you shortened the tapered leader, attached a tippet ring, and then lengthened your tippet (possibly tapering it with 2 diameters of fluoro) so you put more distance between ring and fly, then you would not have any problem with the ring pulling the fly down.

Are you fishing rivers or stillwaters?

Col
 

AndrewL

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I had a set-up for a while that included a tippet ring at the end of a tapered leader. Never had any problems with it. However, the tapered leader was only about 5 foot, with a thick end, while the leader was a 12 foot long, 2-fly rig for stillwater dry fly fishing and was itself tapered... Four feet of 8 lb Maxima, joined to 2 foot of 0.18/0.16 mm low-diameter/high tech nylon, to the dropper, joined to 6 feet of 0.16/0.14 mm of same. So, the tippet ring was 6 feet from dropper/12 feet from tail. At the end of a day, I disposed of everything on the sharp side of the tippet ring.

My current set up is the same, except I don't need a tippet ring, because the tapered leader I use is an Orvis one that has a built-in loop at the end, so I just put a loop in the 8 lb Maxima and join loop to loop.

Maybe if you shortened the tapered leader, attached a tippet ring, and then lengthened your tippet (possibly tapering it with 2 diameters of fluoro) so you put more distance between ring and fly, then you would not have any problem with the ring pulling the fly down.

Are you fishing rivers or stillwaters?

Col

River (single fly only) 9” tapered leader and 2” tippet


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coire

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River (single fly only) 9” tapered leader and 2” tippet


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Do you apply anything to the tapered leader to make it float?

I apply Mucilin to the tapered leaders I use, up to and including the tippet ring, mainly to minimise disturbance when I re-cast but I'm sure it also supports the tippet ring. I don't remember a tippet ring ever dragging a fly under (1.5 mm). A small dry fly for me, however, is only a 16 and very occasionally an 18. Might be worth a try if it would work for the fishing you do.

Beyond the tippet ring, I usually have 3' minimum of tippet that gets treated to sink or left untreated. As suggested in one of the posts above, cutting back your leader by 1' and increasing your tippet to 3' might also be worth a try.
 

Elwyman

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I've been tying fluorocarbon tippets to copolymer tapered leaders using a 4 turn water knot for years, with minimal problems. Wet the materials before pulling tight and be sure it pulls together neatly.
Caught a 10lb salmon on 8lb tippet recently.
 

AndrewL

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Do you apply anything to the tapered leader to make it float?

I apply Mucilin to the tapered leaders I use, up to and including the tippet ring, mainly to minimise disturbance when I re-cast but I'm sure it also supports the tippet ring. I don't remember a tippet ring ever dragging a fly under (1.5 mm). A small dry fly for me, however, is only a 16 and very occasionally an 18. Might be worth a try if it would work for the fishing you do.

Beyond the tippet ring, I usually have 3' minimum of tippet that gets treated to sink or left untreated. As suggested in one of the posts above, cutting back your leader by 1' and increasing your tippet to 3' might also be worth a try.

No, not tried anything to aid leader/tippet buoyancy but will give it a go sometime. Thanks


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JRT

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To the OP question, I use the J knot for fluoro to mono. Its like a much more secure water knot. Its easier to tie reliably with wet hands in torchlight, unlike some more complicated knots. The only disadvantage is that its a bit bulkier than some others. A lot of Aussie saltwater anglers use it and they generally know what they're talking about:


Re Tippet rings in saltwater - fine for UK and light applications. For heavier applications, I find the rings can cut the line. The most reliable knot seems to be looping a loop knot through it doubling the line. But this kind of defeats their advantage so I always stick with knots for bigger stuff. If you are out with a guide they will probably cut out the tipper ring. Same with tapered leaders.
 
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