Cost of rods

tangled

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You stated that there were yellowstone, trident and sexyloops shootouts. Did you make up a sexyloops shootout? Were you quoting a friend of a friend? Is it a fake ?

“If we look at rod price, we can divide the rods into two different groups. The Vogg First, Streamstix T5 and the Loop Yellow Line retail at roughly half the price of the other test rods. The test shows no clear correlation between price and a rod's ability to deliver long casts.”
 

ejw

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I have gone to the Chatsworth Show the 1st week in September for many years and the used to be a stall selling rods ? He used to buy up "test rods" from various companies, they were unmarked with logo's, had various "non standard" handles and rings, rods that just did not go into production. You did not know who made the rods and they had no hype, you could try them and take your chance. Standard price for all was £30 ?
Interesting concept.
I have and I know a few others who bought them and all have been happy with the rods.
As has been mentioned in this thread Modern carbon rods should be of good quality and if you can try them as well, you can find one that suits your casting style.
I wonder if this concept was put into wider practice that the price of rods would come down "significantly" ! Just a thought.
 

tangled

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I have gone to the Chatsworth Show the 1st week in September for many years and the used to be a stall selling rods ? He used to buy up "test rods" from various companies, they were unmarked with logo's, had various "non standard" handles and rings, rods that just did not go into production. You did not know who made the rods and they had no hype, you could try them and take your chance. Standard price for all was £30 ?
Interesting concept.
I have and I know a few others who bought them and all have been happy with the rods.
As has been mentioned in this thread Modern carbon rods should be of good quality and if you can try them as well, you can find one that suits your casting style.
I wonder if this concept was put into wider practice that the price of rods would come down "significantly" ! Just a thought.
I suspect that this is what is more or less what is happening with Maxcatch rods. They're using blanks made for the mainstream global brands in China and selling them direct to end users.

So you get a very good rod at a very cheap price because they have none of the costs and multiplying margins from distribution, marketing and retail and no R&D. But you get no bragging rights either :).
 

loxie

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Out of interest... how would you ‘quantify’ value for money?
I wouldn't. Value depends on how much money you have, how much you are prepared to spend on a rod and how much you want it. I like mainly discontinued rods and can usually buy them for a great deal less than Im prepared to pay for them. That's value for me.
 

original cormorant

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“If we look at rod price, we can divide the rods into two different groups. The Vogg First, Streamstix T5 and the Loop Yellow Line retail at roughly half the price of the other test rods. The test shows no clear correlation between price and a rod's ability to deliver long casts.”
Sorry but this is not a Sexyloops shootout it's a re-print of a magazine report of a 2006 indoor shoot out at a norwegian casting competition published on the sexyloops website.

That being said it is about as objective as it's possible to be. It was a pure distance shootout by 8 top competition casters each casting 8 rods 4 times. The only obvious bias was that no bad rods were selected as 7 of the 8 rods were those used by the competitors in competition.
Some rods can be more difficult to adapt to than others, the more expensive rods did tend to cast marginally further but there's not really much difference between the rods. With 32 casts for each rod the difference between the average distance of the best and worst rod was only just over a metre.

My conclusion is that there's not much difference in performance between the rods selected for distance casting by top norwegian casters. This is a carefully selected sample - regardless of price no bad rods were selected.
 

sewinbasher

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I remember one maker of custom rods being amazed at how cheaply he could get very good quality rods made in China. Around 2005 he was paying £50 for a product that he was able to sell for £250 very easily and is still selling them today.
 

loxie

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A couple of interesting statements there.

First so what should be the primary function of a rod?

Second if you don't choose rods for casting distance or accuracy how do you choose a rod? Cosmetics, fish fighting, status?
I choose rods primarily for fishing and fishing should be its primary function. I like certain makes and models of rods because they will do what I want better than any others I have found. For example my favourite medium trout rod is a Sage SLT 9'4wt. My favourite monkey rod is a G Loomis IMX 11' 8/9. My favourite hitching rod is a carbotec 10' 6wt my favourite Stillwater dry fly rod is a carbotec 9' 5wt, my favourite switch is an airflo 11'3 6wt etc etc.
 

boisker

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I choose rods primarily for fishing and fishing should be its primary function. I like certain makes and models of rods because they will do what I want better than any others I have found. For example my favourite medium trout rod is a Sage SLT 9'4wt. My favourite monkey rod is a G Loomis IMX 11' 8/9. My favourite hitching rod is a carbotec 10' 6wt my favourite Stillwater dry fly rod is a carbotec 9' 5wt, my favourite switch is an airflo 11'3 6wt etc etc.
agh... that’s my mistake.... I was choosing mine as ‘canes’ for growing runner beans and occasionally using one to go brown trout spear fishing...
you’re supposed to choose a fly fishing rod for it’s “primary function”.. fishing😂😂😂
 

ohanzee

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Sorry but this is not a Sexyloops shootout it's a re-print of a magazine report of a 2006 indoor shoot out at a norwegian casting competition published on the sexyloops website.

That being said it is about as objective as it's possible to be. It was a pure distance shootout by 8 top competition casters each casting 8 rods 4 times. The only obvious bias was that no bad rods were selected as 7 of the 8 rods were those used by the competitors in competition.
Some rods can be more difficult to adapt to than others, the more expensive rods did tend to cast marginally further but there's not really much difference between the rods. With 32 casts for each rod the difference between the average distance of the best and worst rod was only just over a metre.

My conclusion is that there's not much difference in performance between the rods selected for distance casting by top norwegian casters. This is a carefully selected sample - regardless of price no bad rods were selected.
The particular characteristics that make a rod better at casting further are not in themselves anything to do with quality or cost.
 

ohanzee

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I choose rods primarily for fishing and fishing should be its primary function. I like certain makes and models of rods because they will do what I want better than any others I have found. For example my favourite medium trout rod is a Sage SLT 9'4wt. My favourite monkey rod is a G Loomis IMX 11' 8/9. My favourite hitching rod is a carbotec 10' 6wt my favourite Stillwater dry fly rod is a carbotec 9' 5wt, my favourite switch is an airflo 11'3 6wt etc etc.
I think what you are saying is the definition of a good rod is a complex balance of lots of things, usually specific to a particular set of circumstances.
 

tangled

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Sorry but this is not a Sexyloops shootout it's a re-print of a magazine report of a 2006 indoor shoot out at a norwegian casting competition published on the sexyloops website.
Apology accepted.

My conclusion is that there's not much difference in performance between the rods selected for distance casting by top norwegian casters. This is a carefully selected sample - regardless of price no bad rods were selected.
And surprisingly enough that's their finding too! Amazing.

In this test, like in the 6 Yellowstone tests and the two Trident tests, no correlation was found between the price of a rod and its performance.

Are you seeing the picture yet?
 

ohanzee

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And neither, its seems, are accuracy or weight.
Or any individual characteristic.

Simply put the 'best' rod is one that combines all characteristics well, or just better than others.

Do you have a graph for that?
 

loxie

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agh... that’s my mistake.... I was choosing mine as ‘canes’ for growing runner beans and occasionally using one to go brown trout spear fishing...
you’re supposed to choose a fly fishing rod for it’s “primary function”.. fishing😂😂😂
It's a very common mistake! Not your rather overdone slapstick irony, but most rods today seem to be chosen primarily as a casting rod. You see plenty of threads, here and elsewhere, where people are complaining of loosing lots of fish. With a fishing rod this is far less common than with a casting rod. Anglers are seduced by ideas about casting further and more accurately with tighter loops and buy rods that would be more useful for spear fishing or growing runner beans.
 

tangled

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Or any individual characteristic.
Build quality has a reasonably good correlation to price - reel seats, rings etc. That's all I ever found and you pay a high price for a small improvement that is almost all cosmetic. The build quality on most modern rods above, say, £75 is excellent.

Simply put the 'best' rod is one that combines all characteristics well, or just better than others.

Do you have a graph for that?
Yes, it the overall score given by both Yellowstone and Trident. You and others objected to that because it contains subjective elements. I'd have to go back and look but I'm pretty sure there was no correlation there either.

And no one will ever agree on which rod is 'best' will they?
 

ohanzee

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And no one will ever agree on which rod is 'best' will they?
There is no 'best' rod in the same way that there is no 'best' type of fly fishing, the 9'5 weight I use to boost a long cast from the bank of a loch is a different 9'5 weight that I'd use to fish a small river.

You would have to narrow down the variables to get near 'best', best for what? would be the first question.
 

original cormorant

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It's a very common mistake! Not your rather overdone slapstick irony, but most rods today seem to be chosen primarily as a casting rod. You see plenty of threads, here and elsewhere, where people are complaining of loosing lots of fish. With a fishing rod this is far less common than with a casting rod. Anglers are seduced by ideas about casting further and more accurately with tighter loops and buy rods that would be more useful for spear fishing or growing runner beans.
You don't seem to get it
The primary function of the fly dressing is to attact the fish.
The primary function of the hook is to attach the fish to the line.
The primary function of the line is to connect the fly to the angler
The primary function of the rod is to deliver the fly on the line to where the angler thinks the fish will be. This is called casting.

I really can't accept your distinction between casting and fishing rods.
 

loxie

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You don't seem to get it
The primary function of the fly dressing is to attact the fish.
The primary function of the hook is to attach the fish to the line.
The primary function of the line is to connect the fly to the angler
The primary function of the rod is to deliver the fly on the line to where the angler thinks the fish will be. This is called casting.

I really can't accept your distinction between casting and fishing rods.
Ah well we will just have to disagree then.

There is a great deal more to fishing than casting and if you are any good at it you can cast perfectly well with pretty much any rod but you can't work the fly and play and land fish perfectly well with just any rod. There is little point in casting to a fish if you can't tempt it to take, or cant hook it when it takes or can't land it when you hook it. That's fishing.
 
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