Dry fly fishing. Fluorocarbon best in bright conditions.

dgp

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Apologies for bringing the FC v Nylon debate to the forum again but Gareth Jones in the latest T&S presents convincing evidence from fishing with dries at Brenig that FC catches more fish than nylon (or copolymer as he calls it !) when 'the sun is shining and light ripples'. Not my experience at all but perhaps I would have had more success if I had been using FC in recent years. Will have to work out how to stop the FC sticking in the surface film (which I'm convinced it does more than nylon) and then pulling the fly under when it does sink.
 

Cap'n Fishy

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Apologies for bringing the FC v Nylon debate to the forum again but Gareth Jones in the latest T&S presents convincing evidence from fishing with dries at Brenig that FC catches more fish than nylon (or copolymer as he calls it !) when 'the sun is shining and light ripples'. Not my experience at all but perhaps I would have had more success if I had been using FC in recent years. Will have to work out how to stop the FC sticking in the surface film (which I'm convinced it does more than nylon) and then pulling the fly under when it does sink.
I agree with everything you say - fluoro is worse at sticking in the surface than nylon and pulls the fly down before I've fished out the cast. But if there is one time I would avoid fluoro when it is a straight choice - eg pulling wets - it's in bright sun. To my eye, fluoro shows up more than nylon in bright sun.

This is fluoro in the sun...


But it's funny how different folk can come to different conclusions! :unsure:
 

dgp

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Yes really interesting to hear different experiences. In the article Gareth Jones says "on more than one occasion I didnt fare as well (using copolymer) as others who were fishing dry flies on FC as heavy as 13lbs" Must be using big fluffy or FAB flies as there is no way in the world I would succeed with my style of dry fly fishing which is not continual casting to feeding fish.
 

dgp

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I agree with everything you say - fluoro is worse at sticking in the surface than nylon and pulls the fly down before I've fished out the cast. But if there is one time I would avoid fluoro when it is a straight choice - eg pulling wets - it's in bright sun. To my eye, fluoro shows up more than nylon in bright sun.

This is fluoro in the sun...


But it's funny how different folk can come to different conclusions! :unsure:
great video by the way and very convincing !
 

Cap'n Fishy

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Yes really interesting to hear different experiences. In the article Gareth Jones says "on more than one occasion I didnt fare as well (using copolymer) as others who were fishing dry flies on FC as heavy as 13lbs" Must be using big fluffy or FAB flies as there is no way in the world I would succeed with my style of dry fly fishing which is not continual casting to feeding fish.
For sure - I think a lot will depend on your style of dry fly fishing. I think a lot of the 'fan-casting brigade' think that is the only way to approach it. It also depends on the fish you are fishing for. I mind a day a couple of seasons back on Coldingham Loch when my boat partner was fishing fluoro and 4 CDC shuttlecocks with about 6 plumes in each. And he totally kicked my arse. I was on nylon and a delicate pair of dries and the fish were just giving me fresh-air shots and refusals, while his CDCs were getting taken confidently. I wondered if we were attracting different groups of fish. A lot of the fish on Coldingham have been caught several times and they can get quite twitchy. I wondered if my partner was attracting fresher stockies, while I was getting arsy takes from residents??? Dunno! But you have to be prepared to roll with the punches and I should have tried 4 shuttlecocks on fluoro instead of sitting there, muttering under my breath. 🤭

Col
 

Cap'n Fishy

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I've read Gareth Jones' article. Some interesting views, certainly. He seems to contradict himself quite a lot, though.

He's talking about the trout's food drifting down the water with the breeze, and then he's describing it as static???

He's not really explaining the principles of stillwater drag very well... or maybe I am not understanding what he is getting at? :unsure: I thought it could do with a better description of the fly in relation to the boat and the fly line with the introduction of drag???

I'd be interested in how he casts sideways across the wind when he is in a 2-man boat???

The section of raising the rod tip seems to have a bit where it says keep the rod tip level, when I suspect it should say keep the rod tip raised??? The caption under the photo also seems contradictory???

His 2-fly rig is spaced very differently to mine. I have 6 feet to the dropper (he has 3 feet) and then 6 feet to the point fly (he has 12 ft) I would find 12 ft unruly and wayward when trying to cover short-range rises in calm water. I would also find it impossible to land a fish on the tail fly on my 9 ft 6 inch rod.

His curve cast to beat drag - ha-ha - my casting action is so crippled these days, I mostly do a curve cast whether I mean to or not! 😜 I'm guessing he's not doing much covering of rises if he's pleased to have his tail fly land nearer him than his dropper fly? :unsure:

I admire his dedication to change leaders several times a day. If I am lucky enough to get a highly successful day with a load of fish, it becomes a challenge to get through the whole day with the same leader - as it becomes more and more frottered! 🤭

He's another who thinks that copolymer is another word for low-diameter nylon. Bottom of the class, Mr Jones! (n)

His anecdote with the fluoro is fair-enough. It's in line with the sorts of observations I have written about on this forum on a number of occasions where one person is catching and the other isn't and what is required is for the one who is not catching to change leader materials. Sometimes it needs to be a change from nylon to fluoro and sometimes it needs to be a change from fluoro to nylon. And my suspicion is that it's connected to light... which is what he's saying... albeit his anecdote has him changing to fluoro in sunshine, when my mates and me tend to steer clear of fluoro in sunshine. But that's fishing!

Col
 
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Scotty Mitchell

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Dunno! But you have to be prepared to roll with the punches and I should have tried 4 shuttlecocks on fluoro instead of sitting there, muttering under my breath. 🤭

Col
This actually made me laugh out loud. I enjoy fishing how I do so much I am very guilty of said sitting muttering rather than making a switch!

I have to say that bright sunshine is the last place I want flourocarbon. Its like someone switching on a strip light, and can be seen very easily as it heads downwards. These are my observations.
 

Wee Jimmy

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. I wondered if we were attracting different groups of fish. A lot of the fish on Coldingham have been caught several times and they can get quite twitchy. I wondered if my partner was attracting fresher stockies, while I was getting arsy takes from residents???

Col
I would put my mortgage on it, especially today when so many fish in the water have been caught and released ,several times in some cases.There is no way that such a crude and clumsy approach would fool many of the wised up residents that we fish for on the big waters.
 

dgp

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He's a braver man than me fishing Brenig in a big wave ! so I don't need to learn how to do a curve cast - quite a feat on a windy day but he is after all a Welsh international.
 

steve collyer

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I've yet to find a fluorocarbon tippet that didn't pull a dry under within about 20 seconds of it being cast out.
Copolymer all the way for me as far as dries or emergers are concerned.
 

JCP

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If I recall from previous Gareth Jones Airflo films/articles etc he does not always follow the same formula.It depends on if search/fan casting from a drifting boat or casting to visible moving fish.There are several schools of thought on this and think has to be dependant on conditions.Our resident dry fly Guru preaches frequently degreased low diameter nylon for all his dry fly fishing.I know of other well thought of fly fishers who fish fluorocarbon for dries with the caveat being they cast short from the boat and recast frequently.Others from the bank or boat like to let the flies sit a while and tend to fish low diameter nylon and degrease regularly.Think best to be prepared to adapt to conditions on the day and be prepared to change to a leader which works.Soon know when it does not work..

JP
 
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Cap'n Fishy

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If I recall from previous Gareth Jones Airflo films/articles etc he does not always follow the same formula.It depends on if search/fan casting from a drifting boat or casting to visible moving fish.There are several schools of thought on this and think has to be dependant on conditions.
Aye, I appreciate you can't put everything on the subject into a single article. Maybe he rapid fan casts for OTBs when he's on fluoro, so doesn't have issues with fluoro dragging flies down. Maybe he fishes the cast out when he's covering rises on nylon? A bit more explanation would have helped.

I know of other well thought of fly fishers who fish fluorocarbon for dries with the caveat being they cast short from the boat and recast frequently.
I just can't understand how this can be a good tactic? To me, rapid casting in front of the boat is the best way I know to scare the fish away to the furthest point of the cast's reach. That would tie in with the fan-casters saying they rapid cast because if a fish is going to take your dry it does it within the first few seconds, and after that you are wasting time. When I hear them say that, I think the reason it takes in the first few seconds is because you've landed the fly on its head... and the reason nothing takes after that is because it's a fish-free zone between the furthest reach and the boat. In addition, two anglers sharing a boat have a limited arc that they can fan-cast before they either poach each other's water, or risk fouling their back-casts.

I find by casting as infrequently as possible, fish will rise under my rod tip. So, all in all, I just never use fluoro for fishing static dries. If anyone says they fish dries on fluoro, I know for sure they are not fishing the way I fish... but each to their own and all that... :)

Col
 

loxie

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Certainly if you want to catch big wild brownies on hard fished water then fluoro is the way forward. Yes it is harder to use but there are times it is the only way you will catch. It requires restraint and accuracy, you can't just chuck a fly out and wait for a fish to come and eat it, you have to cast to the feeding path of a fish. I've fished with Gareth on a water like that and we both used the same thing, 6x frog hair fluoro tippets off nylon tapered leaders. Treat the leader to float and the tippet to sink. For rainbows and most wild trout in most conditions use nylon it won't really matter but there are times where fluoro is absolutely vital to success.
 

Cap'n Fishy

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Just a thought💡
What about 7ft of whatever nylon to 2/3ft of fluoro to the fly?

Al
Not for me, I'm afraid. For a start, I'm fishing a 2-fly rig. For a second thing, fluoro sticks in the surface film worse than nylon*. For a third, 3 ft of fluoro could still be enough to pull a small dry down before you are ready to lift it off.

* Dennis Moss does it the other way round. When on big dries like mayflies, he fishes fluoro to within 2 feet of the fly and then has a tippet of nylon. He is doing this to get the stiffness of the fluoro, so he doesn't get his leader being spun up by the big fly, but has a nylon tippet so he has a fighting chance of getting it to cut through a calm surface after degreasing it.

Col
 

tierradelfuego

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I agree with everything you say - fluoro is worse at sticking in the surface than nylon and pulls the fly down before I've fished out the cast. But if there is one time I would avoid fluoro when it is a straight choice - eg pulling wets - it's in bright sun. To my eye, fluoro shows up more than nylon in bright sun.

This is fluoro in the sun...


But it's funny how different folk can come to different conclusions! :unsure:
I honestly do get your point on this Col, it is very visible, and can't remember if it was you or someone else who posted the vid last time around (presume you given you were there). Surely though to at least some extent, is that if the fish cared that much it wouldn't have a fly in it's mouth, so why should we care so much?
 
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