Emergers, the best version of dries?

ohanzee

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Lots of emerger patterns lie flat in the surface.
Which ones? a parachute, klink, deer hair emerger, cdc emerger, all have a thorax that sits suspended and hanging below the surface, to imitate an emerging fly that has a thorax that sits suspended below the surface.

There are times when sitting in or on as opposed to hanging under makes a difference.
 

Cap'n Fishy

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I use the Kamasan B100, so mine will hang more vertical. I'll give both a go, identical body and see if it makes any difference. I've also tied some with a white foam post instead of CDC which, with the B100's, hangs down without the feather footprint, and is more robust.
Any shuttlecock is going to hang fairly vertically...






To get the hook up more horizontally with a CDC fly, you would want to switch from a shuttlecock to an F-fly...



However, because the hackle of a Klink is spread across the surface, you have the option to tie it on a shallow curved hook to lie more horizontally...



Or on a B100 to hang deeper into the water...



Col
 

ohanzee

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Here are some...

To pick just one(for simplicity) I personally wouldn't regard this as an emerger pattern, nor an imitation of an emerging stage of a hatch, its pretty much the allrounder hog that I use for prospecting when there is no hatch, can be anything from a terrestrial dungfly to a trapped emerger.

The shipmans is a good example of a classic trapped emerger, and your images are all along those lines, it can work when a DHE doesn't, there are times when fish want trapped emerging flies and ignore those coming off the water, other times they are fixated on those coming off.

The essential thing is that they are designed to represent different things, and sometimes the slight difference between sitting in the surface and hanging below makes the difference between catching and not, therefore I can't agree that an emerger lying flat and one hanging below is the same thing.
 

Cap'n Fishy

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I personally wouldn't regard this as an emerger pattern, nor an imitation of an emerging stage of a hatch
It doesn't matter what you think. It's just a dressing. An emerger is a stage in an insect's life, not a specific dressing. If I use that as an emerger, it's an emerger. If I use it as a terrestrial, it's a terrestrial... and so on, for any of them.

The shipmans is a good example of a classic trapped emerger, and your images are all along those lines
That's the whole point. When the flies are emerging, a lot of them are horizontal at the surface, not hanging vertically down. Any that get trapped are great targets for trout... and hence well worth imitating. Those that don't get trapped... hatch, and a lot of them are away into the air quick, before they get eaten. Remember that the emerger is the insect, not the fly pattern. You asked for emergers lying flat and I gave you some fly dressings, eg Shipmans, F-flies, Klinkhamers, Raiders, Found Links, Comparaduns, etc, that can be used to imitate emergers lying flat.

therefore I can't agree that an emerger lying flat and one hanging below is the same thing.
No one asked you to agree to that. :unsure:
 

ohanzee

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Remember that the emerger is the insect, not the fly pattern
That was my point, dry flies are imitations of very specific things, often particular stages of specific flies, what we call them is less important than that principle, we do differentiate between a thorax hanging under the surface and one trapped in it because it matters to catching.

I subscribe to Bob Wayatt's philosophy in his initial book, a trouts surface diet is mostly nymphs, emerging nymphs, and to a lesser degree flies that land on water, in patterns a nymph, emerger and surface fly covers 99% of a trout diet, three patterns, PTN, DHE, DHS.
 

Cap'n Fishy

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That was my point, dry flies are imitations of very specific things, often particular stages of specific flies, what we call them is less important than that principle, we do differentiate between a thorax hanging under the surface and one trapped in it because it matters to catching.

I subscribe to Bob Wayatt's philosophy in his initial book, a trouts surface diet is mostly nymphs, emerging nymphs, and to a lesser degree flies that land on water, in patterns a nymph, emerger and surface fly covers 99% of a trout diet, three patterns, PTN, DHE, DHS.
So, you consider that dry flies are different to emergers...

(From an old thread...)

For me, and possibly others, a dry fly and an emerger are different things, the dry being a griffiths gnat for example.
This difference is always there in that the fish can react differently to each.
But you also consider that emergers are a type of dry fly.

Yes? No? :unsure:
 

kerryjordan

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2 fairly recent books to demystify the whole subject of emergers ( and failed emergers).
“Fly fishing outside the box” Peter Hayes
“What trout want” Bob Wyatt
Both thoughtful,well written and illustrated books that challenge much orthodoxy regarding feeding triggers, preoccupation, tippet and fly construction and presentation. The authors often disagree which is fine as they are both obviously successful trout anglers, and their views have certainly made me rethink my approach.
×
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skinner

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Ok an Emerger still has to be dried, treated withfloatant or dry& dust .. Therefore is in the category of dry flies... unless it’s an Emerging Nymph .
I think the problem here is “ Traditional Dry Flies”
Then the more modern flies , so I suppose there’s folk that prefer traditional dries to modern and visa versa.
I fish Emergers and I fish a few traditional flies like The Baby Sunfly occasionally.
 

skinner

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The Parachute Adams and Royal Wulff are attractor flies and are also in the category of dry flies .
 

ohanzee

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So, you consider that dry flies are different to emergers...

(From an old thread...)



But you also consider that emergers are a type of dry fly.

Yes? No? :unsure:
Emerger patterns are dry flies.

There are dry flies that are not emergers, therefore by default emergers are a type of dry fly, a crippled emerger is another, a spent, dunn etc types of dry fly.

Its very easy to play word games with these things, like copolymer, to find someone to call wrong.
 
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Cap'n Fishy

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The 'emerger brigade' are not following the rules of taxonomy. 😜

Order = Fruit
Family = Apples
Genus = Eaters
Species = Granny Smith

Order = Dries
Family = Emerger patterns
Genus = Hatching Buzzer patterns
Species = Klinkhamer

So, you can't say that emergers are a type of dry fly and at the same time say that you would use an emerger pattern for one type of occasion, but use a dry fly pattern for another type of occasion. Does not compute!

If you are going to use the term 'Emergers', as a taxonomic rank, you are one level down from 'Dries'. So, if you want to say 'Emergers or _______ ' where the blank is imitating a floating dun, then you can't use the term 'Dry Fly' for the dun imitation. Use 'dun imitation', or 'traditional split wing, hackled dry', or something along those lines...

Order = Dries
Family = Traditional winged & hackled dry fly patterns
Genus = Ephemeroptera dun patterns
Species = Blue-winged olive

Or something like that, what I totally just made up. 🤭

Save to say: can't talk about 'emergers' and 'dries' in the same context, as they are on different taxonomic levels. Saying something like, "I'm not sure whether to try an emerger or a dry" is like saying, "I'm not sure whether to buy some apples or some fruit." 🤪

That's all a bit bolloxy though. So, why not just say what it is you are trying to imitate and what pattern you are using to go about it? As Scotty so eloquently put it... it's all f***ing dries anyway. 👍
 
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