Flank marks on sea trout?

Cap'n Fishy

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Taking a Sherlock Holmes type approach to this...

Eliminate all other factors, and the one which remains must be the truth.

Over the seasons me and my mates catch lots of brown trout and rainbow trout and I take loads of photos of them and I don't have anything much to show you similar to those sea trout photos. I reckon that eliminates the leader being the main cause. No?

And the fact that all those photos of brown and rainbow trout are freshwater-based would point the finger at the culprit being something saltwater-based. No?
 

Bobfly2

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That was my point in post 49 above. Estuary fish should be looked at for marks.
 

flounder

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have you much experience of predators?
no, I tend not to put myself in that type of situation 😉 however back to the matter in hand, lets start with the humble pollack it is a fast moving powerful fish that can ambush it's prey in an instant that tends to like strong currents but like most fish it likes an easy meal and there will be far easier fish to target rather than sea trout, having caught many pollack, up to double figures from the shore and to over 21lb on the wrecks off of Plymouth i have yet to see any fish of size in their mouths or stomach. on the east coast of Scotland the pollack are fewer but tend to be far larger I have never seen marks on coalfish, cod or whatever.
With regards to damage from birds and the like at certain times of certain years a lot of the cod that are brought back to the scales in competitions have damage higher up on their sides this can at times be about 1 in 10 of the fish weighed in this is attributed to cormorants and gannets hitting cod that are feeding higher up in the water on small fish, we have had some of the scientists at the weigh ins to record and take fish for tests, the last time they came down there were no fish with marks on them, typical, as I say it only happens some years for a matter of weeks usually about November time
Marks on the back end of bottom feeding fish that we see tend to have definite teeth mark well spaced out as in the rear flanks have been raked
 

loxie

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no, I tend not to put myself in that type of situation 😉 however back to the matter in hand, lets start with the humble pollack it is a fast moving powerful fish that can ambush it's prey in an instant that tends to like strong currents but like most fish it likes an easy meal and there will be far easier fish to target rather than sea trout, having caught many pollack, up to double figures from the shore and to over 21lb on the wrecks off of Plymouth i have yet to see any fish of size in their mouths or stomach. on the east coast of Scotland the pollack are fewer but tend to be far larger I have never seen marks on coalfish, cod or whatever.
With regards to damage from birds and the like at certain times of certain years a lot of the cod that are brought back to the scales in competitions have damage higher up on their sides this can at times be about 1 in 10 of the fish weighed in this is attributed to cormorants and gannets hitting cod that are feeding higher up in the water on small fish, we have had some of the scientists at the weigh ins to record and take fish for tests, the last time they came down there were no fish with marks on them, typical, as I say it only happens some years for a matter of weeks usually about November time
Marks on the back end of bottom feeding fish that we see tend to have definite teeth mark well spaced out as in the rear flanks have been raked
Big pollack will take a very large bait, well over a 1lb. It seems quite likely if they take a hookbait that size they might eat natural fish that size too?

the point was really that I do have a very extensive experience of, particularly avian, predation of fish and I can tell you with fear of contradiction that most attempts fail. This is pretty much true of every predator/prey interactions, on land or sea or air everywhere in the world.
 

flounder

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Big pollack will take a very large bait, well over a 1lb. It seems quite likely if they take a hookbait that size they might eat natural fish that size too?

the point was really that I do have a very extensive experience of, particularly avian, predation of fish and I can tell you with fear of contradiction that most attempts fail. This is pretty much true of every predator/prey interactions, on land or sea or air everywhere in the world.
lets look at your first point, they will take a large bait they" might" eat a natural fish that size, my thoughts would be not usually and if they did and were not successful then the would leave more damage than is shown on the sea trout,.
your second point I accept most attempts fail but even those failed attempts leave some pretty bad marks on the fish we see
 

loxie

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lets look at your first point, they will take a large bait they" might" eat a natural fish that size, my thoughts would be not usually and if they did and were not successful then the would leave more damage than is shown on the sea trout,.
your second point I accept most attempts fail but even those failed attempts leave some pretty bad marks on the fish we see
Absolutely and those marks are, by and large, what we see in the OP.

By the way why would you think a pollack would take a bigger hookbait than they would a free swimming fish?

I used to fish out of Plymouth a lot. Great wrecking for pollack. Which boat did you go on?
 

flounder

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By the way why would you think a pollack would take a bigger hookbait than they would a free swimming fish?
mainly because it is presented there in front of them as a free offering, no effort required
 

Rhithrogena

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Absolutely and those marks are, by and large, what we see in the OP.

By the way why would you think a pollack would take a bigger hookbait than they would a free swimming fish?

I used to fish out of Plymouth a lot. Great wrecking for pollack. Which boat did you go on?
Post in thread 'Fish ID - Pollack, Coal Fish or other?' https://www.flyfishing.co.uk/threads/fish-id-pollack-coal-fish-or-other.604677/post-2755399
This was from Gemini - skipper Dave Uren..
Big double but looks bigger 'cause of the arms out pose 😂
 

flounder

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I used to fish out of Plymouth a lot. Great wrecking for pollack. Which boat did you go on?
bill warners "mistress" also went out with sean brett cannot remember the name of the boat and "size matters" with I believe graham hannaford, used to stay at the admirals rest down beside the barracks back in the day, we tended to have the last week in May, first week in June usually after the ardrossan club had been
 

loxie

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loxie

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bill warners "mistress" also went out with sean brett cannot remember the name of the boat and "size matters" with I believe graham hannaford, used to stay at the admirals rest down beside the barracks back in the day, we tended to have the last week in May, first week in June usually after the ardrossan club had been
I used to go out on Graham's old boat Tiburon. Happy days!
 

Rhithrogena

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bill warners "mistress" also went out with sean brett cannot remember the name of the boat and "size matters" with I believe graham hannaford, used to stay at the admirals rest down beside the barracks back in the day, we tended to have the last week in May, first week in June usually after the ardrossan club had been
Some names there! I've worked in Plymouth since the 80's. Cut my teeth with Geordie Dickson on Artilleryman.
Fish with Dave Uren on Gemini these days
 

Rhithrogena

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Skinny fish, May or June? My best was a spawned out May fish. Probably would have pushed the record if I'd caught it in March!
Yes.
This was a winter twenty, but looks about fifteen 🤷‍♂️
Screenshot_20210917-220422.png
 

loxie

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Some names there! I've worked in Plymouth since the 80's. Cut my teeth with Geordie Dickson on Artilleryman.
Fish with Dave Uren on Gemini these days
I've not been out for a decade or more. Where does the time go!!
 

loxie

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Time flies, eh?
The wreck netters have absolutely f*cked it for all off here sadly....
I remember fishing the stone for bass in October and there was a netter who shot across our drift because we were catching big bass. Every wreck was pickled in gill nets and the game was up. When we started pollack made no money, then they became fashionable and that was the job effed!
 

Rhithrogena

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I remember fishing the stone for bass in October and there was a netter who shot across our drift because we were catching big bass. Every wreck was pickled in gill nets and the game was up. When we started pollack made no money, then they became fashionable and that was the job effed!
The Stone is still a zoo. Everyone plays fish with the rod down these days to try and stop people seeing it landed. Lots more private boats now, with plotter apps on your phone everyone can access it all ..
 

bobmiddlepoint

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you are clutching at straws with some of your suggestions, there would not be a fish left if a seal took a liking for it, unless it did not have it's teeth in, birds tend to strike a lot further forward, pollack would swallow a smaller fish without it hardly touching the sides, the fish would not know anything about it, but some of the pictures show reasonably sized fish, most damage we see on sea fish are caused by the angler having to bully the fish thru rough type ground and the marks are on the front and on the broader part of the body, also rough weather can mark fish that are too close in and in too shallow water and get caught out but the marks tend to be further forward

Or I might be talking from experience...
This year alone I have seen sea trout and salmon taken by seal, otter, cormorant, osprey and black backed gull. I have also seen plenty of seal marked fish (and have the photo's on my works laptop) that escaped so those were seals with teeth that didn't finish the job. Yes birds try to strike further forward and, as the point has already been made, had they succeeded in doing so we would never have seen these fish.

The pollack thing wasn't clutching at straws but speculating on another possibility. Yes they swallow small fish whole but why wouldn't they have a shot at a bigger one if they got a chance? We have all seen birds take on bigger prey than they can eat/lift just because the opportunity presents itself.


Andy
 

bobmiddlepoint

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Taking a Sherlock Holmes type approach to this...

Eliminate all other factors, and the one which remains must be the truth.

Over the seasons me and my mates catch lots of brown trout and rainbow trout and I take loads of photos of them and I don't have anything much to show you similar to those sea trout photos. I reckon that eliminates the leader being the main cause. No?

And the fact that all those photos of brown and rainbow trout are freshwater-based would point the finger at the culprit being something saltwater-based. No?

Yes and yes!


Andy
 
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