Fly fishing cost and future generations

[kingf000]

None of it goes on your pension,national insurance is just an addition to income tax and goes into the general fund

I simplified this so that I thought that even an imbecile could understand the gist of what I am saying. Your state pension is payed out of the amount of money that the government collects, that includes income tax and national insurance, but also other sources such as VAT, company taxes, local taxes, borrowing etc. I was simply pointing out to you and others that yes, you have paid money to the government for 55 years (if you retired at 65, then unless you started working at 10, you must have a big enough pension that you are still paying tax), but unless you were in the highest tax band all your working life, the amount of income tax and national insurance you have paid is no where near enough to give you your level of state pension. Most of that money you paid was spent on other things. So the money for your state pension comes from the taxes that other people are paying.

 

[glueman]

I simplified this so that I thought that even an imbecile could understand the gist of what I am saying. Your state pension is payed out of the amount of money that the government collects, that includes income tax and national insurance, but also other sources such as VAT, company taxes, local taxes, borrowing etc. I was simply pointing out to you and others that yes, you have paid money to the government for 55 years (if you retired at 65, then unless you started working at 10, you must have a big enough pension that you are still paying tax), but unless you were in the highest tax band all your working life, the amount of income tax and national insurance you have paid is no where near enough to give you your level of state pension. Most of that money you paid was spent on other things. So the money for your state pension comes from the taxes that other people are paying.

My father fought in a war so that imbeciles can spout rubbish

 

[Paul_B]

In the Dales it can be in the region of £40 a year right up to £60 a year for those who can afford it, all good fishing if you know what you're doing,

 

[the optimist]

This is a very interesting thread.
I fish, shoot, play golf and play Tennis.
My three sons were immersed in these sports from before they could walk and now they love all these activities as well. They play golf and tennis with lots of mates their age but none of their friends fly fish. It seems too difficult to get into - it’s more technically difficult to start on your own. A non fishing parent is unlikely to buy a fly rod for a child and set out to find a trout water - whereas any youngster can have a go at coarse fishing Or try golf at a driving range etc.
I am fortunate to be in a local fly syndicate and whilst we have no really young members (one of my sons is a member) we don’t seem to have a shortage of older “grey heads” reaching an age and wanting to give it a go and join.
So maybe fly fishing is a sport that is picked up in later life!

 

[gwyndavies]

I'm a member of an long established fishing club, its an Association run by an elected committee with the remit to make affordable fly fishing for both members (circa 200) and visitors alike, we have two small reservoirs totaling approx 25 acres leased from Dwr Cymru that are stocked regularly and open all year bar 2/3 weeks.

We offer Junior/Student membership at £10 and a day ticket at £4.
Junior Visitor day tickets are £5.
We also offer a Adult & Child ticket at no additional cost, at £8 and £15 for visitors, effectively they are fishing for free.
Its a catch and release limit of 8 with the option to kill 2 fish when fishing then ceases.

I think these are very affordable prices, but and its a big but, we get very few juniors fishing so its not just costs that deter the younger generations from entering our sport.

 

[smallmouth]

........maybe fly fishing is a sport that is picked up in later life......

Or maybe regardless of age, at some point down an angling “path”? I’ve been fishing for fifty four years, ever since I was six, but I was thirty before I picked up a fly rod.

The interest was there from quite a young age, because I was an avid reader of authors like BB. But on reflection, I was never likely to start fly fishing any earlier than I did, unless I’d been born into it due to geography, or family background, or wealth.

However judging by Gwynn’s post above, even the right geography in combination with affordable opportunities isn’t enough to encourage today’s juniors. I wonder if parental influence has more to do with some of them not choosing fishing? Because it takes a whole day up, it’s not safe, it’s muddy and messy, the parent(s) think they should be involved, but they don’t want to be and they resent spending their precious time on something they’ve no interest in?

Unfortunately I live near a large undercover shopping centre and several retail parks. On the very rare occasions I’ve had to go there on a weekend, I was struck by the “swiss fambly shoppers“, entire families clad in pristine white clothes and trainers, in crocodile procession along the malls. Probably spending their entire summer Sunday shopping and eating out, but indoors. Not getting muddy.....

Shopping trips were definitely a leisure activity/hobby for some pre Covid. What are they doing now? Shopping online and ordering in takeaway?

Or discovering there’s an outdoors? If so, maybe now’s the time for angling to catch them.....

 

[Overmiwadrers]

A grand is reasonable value considering that includes a personal female topless gillie. There's no fish in the water, but strangely enough there is a long waiting list!



Douglas

For that money I wouldn’t just want a topless Gillie I would want “ extras”

O M W

 

[sean freeman]

I’m on the waiting list for C&L but not sure I’ll ever get in as I’ve been critical of their management of such a stunning stretch of river. Could be an absolutely amazing 100% wild fishery but they stock like mad to appease half of the membership that are useless, some top anglers and even some well known wild trout trust members so I don’t know how they put up with it.

The peacock fly fishers club downstream is 100% wild (other than what washes downstream but we can’t stop that unfortunately), four rivers covering over 15 miles, stuffed with wild fish, and no joining fee. The price is comparable to C&L but I feel there is more value there for people who like to fish for wildies.

 

[bigmaggie]

I'm very fortunate that i married a Scottish girl and i have done quiet a bit of fishing up there
i asked a question on here a few years ago why was it so much cheeper to fish in scotland than it was down in the south and most of the answers was it was due to supply and demand so surely if there is less demand it should have gone down in price also most fisheries ive been to in scotland no matter how small all do catch and release where as down here in the south there are very few which allow this there also seems far more fishing there than here the best fishery imo is elinor ed charges £17 for a catch and release ticket the only downside for me its about 240 mile round trip my point is presumably he pays the same for his fish as every one else so are we being ripped of down south
george

 

[kingf000]

My father fought in a war so that imbeciles can spout rubbish

Who is spouting rubbish and why bring fathers into it? My father also fought for 5 years in the war and was part of the fateful 1942 attack on Dieppe, fought at El-Alamain and the invasion of Italy - but what relevance is that? Why not spend a bit of time and look, read and understand what it says on the government and other websites that would tell you exactly what you need to know: That taxes and NI go into the general government pot. About 13% of that pot is distributed as pensions. So only 13% of the tax and NI you pay goes on pensions. I have a personal private pension pot and I know from that valuation that I would need £350K in my pension pot to get an annuity the same as my state pension. So comparing state pension and personal private pension, as only 13% of your tax/NI goes on pensions, you would need to have paid in the order of £2M tax and NI for your contributions to be the same as for a personal private pension. So the state pension is about 6 times better value than a private pension. People should realise this before they start whinging about the state pension.

 

[glueman]

Kingf000 question as you are an expert. How much is the state pension and could you live on it ?

 

[kingf000]

Kingf000 question as you are an expert. How much is the state pension and could you live on it ?

I'm not an expert, but I've been helping my brother-in-law sort out his pension arrangements as he is coming up for retirement in March.
Whether I could live on it or not is irrelevant, as different people have different needs and that is not what I have been talking about. The independent consumer magazine Which reckon a retired couple needs £15,000 for an 'essential' lifestyle. The current state pension for a couple is £13,962 so there is a shortfall. However, most people will have a supplementary pension from their work contributions. If working people haven't, then they should have planned better for their retirement. Obviously some people will not have had this opportunity and if you are on the basic pension, you should be entitled to pension credit to make up the difference. My understanding is that the state pension was never envisaged as anything other than for essentials.
Another irrelevance, although I have payed over £1M in taxes and NI, I still don't get a full state pension as I was 2 years short of my years of contributions. What you get isn't based on what you've paid, but on the number of years you've paid NI. So someone who has paid NI, but no tax, gets the same state pension as someone who has paid huge amounts of tax.

 

[glueman]

Kingf000 if you have assets of more than (I think the figure but it might have altered a bit) £16,000 you can't get any benefits. I had a company pension from an outfit I worked for from 1974 until 1990 when it went bust and took most of the pension fund with it. I happen to have £16k plus so no bungs

 

[kingf000]

Kingf000 if you have assets of more than (I think the figure but it might have altered a bit) £16,000 you can't get any benefits. I had a company pension from an outfit I worked for from 1974 until 1990 when it went bust and took most of the pension fund with it. I happen to have £16k plus so no bungs

Yes, as with many benefits, eg. paying for the elderly in care home, if you have assets, then you don't get the money. It is assumed that you will use those assets to top up the pension. Whether that is right or wrong is for the politicians, not me. You were very unlucky with your pension fund as now pension funds are ring fenced and so companies cannot raid the funds to prop up their business. However, the law still doesn't stop unscrupulous b******ds like Sir Philip Green from not doing his legal duty to contribute to the pension funds. He has done it twice, once with BHS and now with Arcadia.

 

[glueman]

Kingf000 I have tried knocking a brick out of my back wall and taking it to Aldi in exchange for shopping but they would not have it. The only way most can realize money from assets is to sell then you have no where to live

 

[kingf000]

Kingf000 I have tried knocking a brick out of my back wall and taking it to Aldi in exchange for shopping but they would not have it. The only way most can realize money from assets is to sell then you have no where to live

Take it up with your MP. They set the rules. I assume that they think the pension top-up benefit is for people as a last resort, hence they assume that if your asset is a house, you can realise the value by equity release where you can still live there rent free, but you no longer own the home and it becomes the property of the lender when you or your partner, whoever lives longer, dies. Of course, I doubt if many in the government have ever experienced this. However, IMO blame those who don't provide themselves with a pension, but invest in a larger than necessary house as a better investment, then moan when they have to sell the house on retirement. I'm not saying that is you.

 

[glueman]

Take it up with your MP. They set the rules. I assume that they think the pension top-up benefit is for people as a last resort, hence they assume that if your asset is a house, you can realise the value by equity release where you can still live there rent free, but you no longer own the home and it becomes the property of the lender when you or your partner, whoever lives longer, dies. Of course, I doubt if many in the government have ever experienced this. However, IMO blame those who don't provide themselves with a pension, but invest in a larger than necessary house as a better investment, then moan when they have to sell the house on retirement. I'm not saying that is you.

I live in a small ex council semi in a small hamlet, all I could afford after a messy divorce, perhaps worth £200K on the open market no where near that on equity realise. Luckly or unluckly I have too much in savings to get any help at all from the council or state, I do get of course 25 % of rates as live alone but even that is a bit twisted as why do I only get 25 % for needing the minimum of 50% of the other residents,
It is an unfortunate fact that the UK despises the older generation unlike most other EU countries

 

[ed_t]

Who is spouting rubbish and why bring fathers into it? My father also fought for 5 years in the war and was part of the fateful 1942 attack on Dieppe, fought at El-Alamain and the invasion of Italy - but what relevance is that? Why not spend a bit of time and look, read and understand what it says on the government and other websites that would tell you exactly what you need to know: That taxes and NI go into the general government pot. About 13% of that pot is distributed as pensions. So only 13% of the tax and NI you pay goes on pensions. I have a personal private pension pot and I know from that valuation that I would need £350K in my pension pot to get an annuity the same as my state pension. So comparing state pension and personal private pension, as only 13% of your tax/NI goes on pensions, you would need to have paid in the order of £2M tax and NI for your contributions to be the same as for a personal private pension. So the state pension is about 6 times better value than a private pension. People should realise this before they start whinging about the state pension.

His father didn't know it, but he was defending his son's imbecilic rights. The boy had a successful business etc. etc. but still moans about the state pension.

 

[glueman]

His father didn't know it, but he was defending his son's imbecilic rights. The boy had a successful business etc. etc. but still moans about the state pension.

I moan about the state pension because a firm I worked for in the past went to the wall taking my private pension with it. When running my own company after that all money I earned went into the company. You are obviously not running a business or you would know 1 business first,2 employees 2nd owner 3rd

 

[ohanzee]

Don't want to interrupt a perfectly good argument but I'm just a bit lost with costs bit, I get by with one rod and a spare somewhere, and I have not bought anything but tippet for a couple of years, maybe more, everything I need there, no desire to fill cupboards with more.

A ticket is probably cheaper for me here than in England, that balances with me maybe spending more on diesel.

I'm not seeing it, I think if tackle was particularly expensive people would buy less of it, no sign of that.