FNF Talon vice (jaws similar to LAW vice)?

[pentlandflyman]

Could someone enlighten me on this . The LAW vice is undoubtedly excellent I have borrowed a couple to play on and they are good I even nearly bought one at the BFFI a few years back . But the price of them is more about scarcity and originality. Personally I think this “copy” isn’t cheap and interested that so many seem happy to sink a wad of cash into something quite unknown. What am I missing
O M W

FNF bring out stuff like rods (rods had similar hype and mystery) and this vice in very small numbers and they are mostly sold/supplied to friends of the owner or a select few people. I bought the HMH TRV for the LAW style jaws only because I know HMH have a solid reputation and the vice is used by tyers world-wide. Would I buy the FNF at the same price when they have no background in vices and they don't have any real info on it or reviews ? Not a chance in hell, why the secrecy ? If its that good show everyone. Are they making it all secret and mysterious on purpose to make it a must have like the LAW (clever marketing) ? Good luck to anyone that's bought it though, I hope you get many years of tying out it.

 

[Rob Edmunds]

I'm going to be 100% honest on this and I fully accept I may get shot down but still....here goes, it's my personal opinion.

The lads I fish with in our 6 man team have the following vices....J Vice, LAW, Regal Full Rotary Revolution, Regal Medallion S/S jaws, Dynaking Barracuda, Dynaking Kingfisher.

We all swop stuff to have a play about with each others gear.. as we stay in the same house for 4 or 5 days 3 times a year minimum.. I've tried all the above vices numerous times, probably tied 150+ flies on each

The best vice in our eyes is unanimous....its the quickest to size for different size hooks, sturdy, and a great grip.....Regal full Rotary Revolution

A close second is Regal Medallion with S/S jaws....

After which it's down to personal taste, we all love the looks of the J vice, LAW or Barracuda but all are fiddly and time consuming to size hooks of different sizes compared to the Regals simplicity.....to me they are more ornaments than practical tools.

Yes they are all serious Vices, well made and will last a lifetime...all great and all much better looking than the Regals but from a tying perspective the last we would all pick is the Kingfisher and the LAW....

Regal for pure functionality, durability and simplicity.

Dynaking Barracuda if you want looks and durability

LAW or J Vice for looks and an ornament or if you tie on the same size hook every time

 

[micka]

I'm going to be 100% honest on this and I fully accept I may get shot down but still....here goes, it's my personal opinion.

The lads I fish with in our 6 man team have the following vices....J Vice, LAW, Regal Full Rotary Revolution, Regal Medallion S/S jaws, Dynaking Barracuda, Dynaking Kingfisher.

We all swop stuff to have a play about with each others gear.. as we stay in the same house for 4 or 5 days 3 times a year minimum.. I've tried all the above vices numerous times, probably tied 150+ flies on each

The best vice in our eyes is unanimous....its the quickest to size for different size hooks, sturdy, and a great grip.....Regal full Rotary Revolution

A close second is Regal Medallion with S/S jaws....

After which it's down to personal taste, we all love the looks of the J vice, LAW or Barracuda but all are fiddly and time consuming to size hooks of different sizes compared to the Regals simplicity.....to me they are more ornaments than practical tools.

Yes they are all serious Vices, well made and will last a lifetime...all great and all much better looking than the Regals but from a tying perspective the last we would all pick is the Kingfisher and the LAW....

Regal for pure functionality, durability and simplicity.

Dynaking Barracuda if you want looks and durability

LAW or J Vice for looks and an ornament or if you tie on the same size hook every time

Brilliant to the point summary.

Mick

 

[ejw]

Totally agree with Rob, like him I have tied on most vices, but for my sins I try to tie most of my flies on a "cheap" leaver action Chinese vice, as I demonstrate a lot to beginners, so it shows that you do not need an expensive vice.
For pleasure tying I still use a Snowbee AR vice, bought new many years ago and still in the "travel bag" it came in. I use both the "tool makers" clamp and the wire loop. The reason - it looks good and I still class it as my "posh" vice. Each to their own.

 

[Spider]

Rob is there any issue with the Regal "pinging" hooks out? In my early tying days 14 years ago I used a similar action Indian (?) vice, and it spat smaller hooks out too regularly for my liking. Presume Regal SS would be superior?

 

[Rob Edmunds]

I own the Regal Medallion S/S Jaws and Kieron Jenkins the Regal Revolution....I've never had any problems at all with hooks pinging out, in fact if you put a size10 B175 in the jaws and pull up on the eye the hook straightened rather than pings out. The grip is amazing.....We both think they are great and the best vices for "our"needs....and yes I do like the full Rotary action of Ki's Revolution better than mine, but only just......and I can't justify the extra cost so I'm more than happy.

I also own a cheap Chinese Regal copy, have done for years......and I may get some stick but its 90% as good as a genuine Regal...good hook hold, simple to use when changing hook sizes etc....and about £30... again never had hooks ping out but the grip although good isn't a patch on the Regals

I got the Regal not because I needed it, or because it makes my tying any better......but fishing part of my life, always has been and always will be....so if I use it for the next 30 years it probably works out about £8 year or something silly - that's my justification...

Personally I think a J-vice with Damascus steel jaws is stunning - like mind blowing, my Mrs actually said she would let me keep one in the lounge on the mantelpiece with those looks as it's a great conversation piece....but when you tie lots of different size flies it's just too fiddly, and the jaws grip can slip very occasionally....if your not in a rush to knock out lots of different sizes patterns i'd have one again.

 

[Spider]

Rob, my smallest tie would be a 22/24 f fly. And not many of those.

I think it could handle such a small hook?

Would a C clamp give a better stability than the heavy base? I've never used a vice with a base?

 

[Mrtrout]

I own the Regal Medallion S/S Jaws and Kieron Jenkins the Regal Revolution....I've never had any problems at all with hooks pinging out, in fact if you put a size10 B175 in the jaws and pull up on the eye the hook straightened rather than pings out. The grip is amazing.....We both think they are great and the best vices for "our"needs....and yes I do like the full Rotary action of Ki's Revolution better than mine, but only just......and I can't justify the extra cost so I'm more than happy.

I also own a cheap Chinese Regal copy, have done for years......and I may get some stick but its 90% as good as a genuine Regal...good hook hold, simple to use when changing hook sizes etc....and about £30... again never had hooks ping out but the grip although good isn't a patch on the Regals

I got the Regal not because I needed it, or because it makes my tying any better......but fishing part of my life, always has been and always will be....so if I use it for the next 30 years it probably works out about £8 year or something silly - that's my justification...

Personally I think a J-vice with Damascus steel jaws is stunning - like mind blowing, my Mrs actually said she would let me keep one in the lounge on the mantelpiece with those looks as it's a great conversation piece....but when you tie lots of different size flies it's just too fiddly, and the jaws grip can slip very occasionally....if your not in a rush to knock out lots of different sizes patterns i'd have one again.

No stick from me Rob, I had one cost less than £20 delivered and held a hook beautifully. I did find the jaws a bit wide, but surprisingly I got on with it very well.
Rather wish I’d kept it now, ideal for tying if your away from home.
S.

 

[sean freeman]

I own the Regal Medallion S/S Jaws and Kieron Jenkins the Regal Revolution....I've never had any problems at all with hooks pinging out, in fact if you put a size10 B175 in the jaws and pull up on the eye the hook straightened rather than pings out. The grip is amazing.....We both think they are great and the best vices for "our"needs....and yes I do like the full Rotary action of Ki's Revolution better than mine, but only just......and I can't justify the extra cost so I'm more than happy.

I also own a cheap Chinese Regal copy, have done for years......and I may get some stick but its 90% as good as a genuine Regal...good hook hold, simple to use when changing hook sizes etc....and about £30... again never had hooks ping out but the grip although good isn't a patch on the Regals

I got the Regal not because I needed it, or because it makes my tying any better......but fishing part of my life, always has been and always will be....so if I use it for the next 30 years it probably works out about £8 year or something silly - that's my justification...

Personally I think a J-vice with Damascus steel jaws is stunning - like mind blowing, my Mrs actually said she would let me keep one in the lounge on the mantelpiece with those looks as it's a great conversation piece....but when you tie lots of different size flies it's just too fiddly, and the jaws grip can slip very occasionally....if your not in a rush to knock out lots of different sizes patterns i'd have one again.

I think Kieron has bought one of the FNF vices and based on his comments on Facebook he seems very pleased with it.

I was going to get the regal but deceived to get one of Mike Johnson’s vices, great vice but I still look at regal vices fairly often. Might have to scratch the itch one day!

 

[micka]

Following what Rob said I cut the the metal shank off my (is it an Indian or Chinese?) copy of the Regal with my angle grinder so I could fit it into the pedestal base of my Barracuda, which it now does nicely at a just the right height for tying. If I'm varying between salmon flies and say small nymphs it holds them both securely in an instant and I can rotate it, not as smoothly as the Dyna-King perhaps but just slacken the holding (round) nut at the back and hey presto.

For anyone starting fly tying I would certainly recommend the pedestal version of these for around £30 as I've had no problem with flies pinging and they are just so damn quick.

PS in answer to the question above, I much prefer a pedestal vice as you can centre it more comfortably on to your table (or whatever you use) as imho that is more natural than on the edge and better for catching any waste too and with a decent base it's rock solid secure.

Mick

 

[Rob Edmunds]

The Stainless Steel Regal jaws would handle a 22 ok...

But they also do " midge jaws" which is for hooks size 6 to 32...

As Mick says a decent Pedestal base is better than a C clamp as it allows for better positioning on the table..

I purchased one of these and its brilliant and weighs about 5kg so no movement ever http://alaskahalibutlodge.com/thegranitefly/shop/

But I'm sure it would be easy enough to make your own if you wanted.

 

[Spider]

Rob looking at it, I'd say I don't do many under 22 actually although the midge jaws don't look smaller at the tip than the SS? Have you used the midge jaws? Tks

 

[pentlandflyman]

Rob looking at it, I'd say I don't do many under 22 actually although the midge jaws don't look smaller at the tip than the SS? Have you used the midge jaws? Tks

I've tied 24's on the SS jaws and the only problem was seeing the hook. As for hooks pinging out if it does happen it's user error by putting the hook right at the tip of the jaws and it can happen with any vice causing chipped jaws if you're unlucky.

The HMH TLV/LAW type jaw hook setting time isn't really an issue, any hook size set solid with a slight turn of a side screw, no other adjustment needed, If I was tying a lot of flies like a pro or comp angler I would always choose my Regal just because its bulletproof, fast and easy.

 

[ackroyd]

Undoubtedly the LAW vice was a great vice. Oliver Edwards and Davy McPhail said so and that was good enough for me. I was just about to order one when Laurence Waldron retired. I recently bought a Stonfo and although I have some very minor criticisms, on the whole I am very pleased with it. However, on learning that this vise is as solid as a rock, that would be the clincher for me, all other considerations being equal. It looks very like the LAW vice, of course, particularly at the jaws, and I am impressed by what others have said as to its ability to accommodate a wide variety of hooks. If this had come onto the market before I bought my Stonfo, I would certainly have bought it. Indeed, I may yet do so, because stability is everything when fly-tying. I used to tie classics, and still tie Dee and Spey flies. To achieve the "scissors" wing position on Dees, and the "keel of an upturned boat" position on Speys sometimes requires minute manipulation, especially on Speys where the mallard wings are inclined to split if you don't get them right first time. This is where I find my Stonfo slightly irritating. When you turn the rotary round to check that the wings are correctly positioned, the mechanism clicks and holds a little - at least mine does. I have adapted to that minor inconvenience, and in all other respects the Stonfo is a very satisfactory vice. I'm not sure I am ready to part with £500 for a new vice now that I am a pensioner, but if my family were to come to me and ask what I would like for a big birthday, I might opt for the Talon. Anyway, best wishes to anyone buying one. May your wraps never break and may you lay on jay hackles without problems.

 

[baztek1]

Personally I think a J-vice with Damascus steel jaws is stunning - like mind blowing, my Mrs actually said she would let me keep one in the lounge on the mantelpiece with those looks as it's a great conversation piece....

Me too love mine

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

 

[ackroyd]

I had forgotten about the J-vice, baztek1. Thank-you for the reminder. I suppose if I had money to burn, I would buy one if for no other reason that with its incorporation of beautifully burnished metal it has amazing looks.

There now follows a sad little story.........

I was in a tackle shop one day, not so long ago. On a shelf behind the counter stood a Stonfo vice. I remarked to the shop owner that I had a very similar Stonfo. He said that the one behind the counter was in for repair. I was rather taken aback, as one of the reasons I had bought my Stonfo was that it was solidly constructed. "How does it come to be broken?", I asked. "The guy's wife threw it at him when he brought it home.", he said.

I refrain from further comment.

 

[m r roid]

Rob is there any issue with the Regal "pinging" hooks out? In my early tying days 14 years ago I used a similar action Indian (?) vice, and it spat smaller hooks out too regularly for my liking. Presume Regal SS would be superior?

I bought a Regal Medallion a couple of years ago. Within the first few hours of use it spat 2 size 18 out with great force. The first was embedded in the ceiling, the second was never found!!!!!!!
Could easily have hit someone in the eye.......
It went straight on eBay the next day.

 

[Spider]

That's not good. Any thoughts from the Regal fans? Looking at the SS, I'm thinking that its narrow point would allow a better grip on a small hook? "Get a hold of it" better?

 

[baca157]

Undoubtedly the LAW vice was a great vice. Oliver Edwards and Davy McPhail said so and that was good enough for me. I was just about to order one when Laurence Waldron retired. I recently bought a Stonfo and although I have some very minor criticisms, on the whole I am very pleased with it. However, on learning that this vise is as solid as a rock, that would be the clincher for me, all other considerations being equal. It looks very like the LAW vice, of course, particularly at the jaws, and I am impressed by what others have said as to its ability to accommodate a wide variety of hooks. If this had come onto the market before I bought my Stonfo, I would certainly have bought it. Indeed, I may yet do so, because stability is everything when fly-tying. I used to tie classics, and still tie Dee and Spey flies. To achieve the "scissors" wing position on Dees, and the "keel of an upturned boat" position on Speys sometimes requires minute manipulation, especially on Speys where the mallard wings are inclined to split if you don't get them right first time. This is where I find my Stonfo slightly irritating. When you turn the rotary round to check that the wings are correctly positioned, the mechanism clicks and holds a little - at least mine does. I have adapted to that minor inconvenience, and in all other respects the Stonfo is a very satisfactory vice. I'm not sure I am ready to part with £500 for a new vice now that I am a pensioner, but if my family were to come to me and ask what I would like for a big birthday, I might opt for the Talon. Anyway, best wishes to anyone buying one. May your wraps never break and may you lay on jay hackles without problems.

Ha! And I thought I was the only one with the ’click‘ in the rotary mechanism in the Stonfo! Which Stonfo do you have Ackroyd?

Mine only does that when the rotary function is set fairly tight and it’s only one ‘click’ per Full 360 degrees rotation. I initially thought that there is some minor bump on the shaft which offers resistance to the tightening screw but when I had a closer look I noticed that the screw doesn’t touch the shank as in other vices like Renzetti. It pulls tight a clamp that closes over the shank which makes the rotary function much smoother. I really want to take it apart to see what is causing this ’click’ but I am scared that I won’t be able to put it back together afterwards...

I really like my Stonfo and this click was never an issue with me as I only rotate the vice when tension is set lightly. Saying that, one day may go for a LAW replica as a second vice

Cheers,
Sebastian

 

[pentlandflyman]

That's not good. Any thoughts from the Regal fans? Looking at the SS, I'm thinking that its narrow point would allow a better grip on a small hook? "Get a hold of it" better?

See my post on it a few up.

The SS jaws are very fine and hold small hooks very well, I've tied down to a 24 (f fly) with the only problem being my eyesight! it states it ties from a 2 to a 32. Worth every penny and highly recommended as it the TRV.

If you Google chipped regal jaws you will find a few posts about it with guys ending up with chipped jaws after the vice has spat the hook and its always user error. It happens by not setting the hook properly in the jaws. The vice comes with instructions on setting hooks and give clear warning about hook spitting and jaw damage if not done correctly. I'm very careful with the SS jaws as I plan on having the vice a very long time.

This is from their site -

Improperly placing hooks into the jaw mechanism. Improper hook placement will invalidate your warranty and may cause damage to the vise jaws. Your Regal Vise is designed in a specific manner to hold hooks securely while tying. Care must be taken when both placing a hook into the jaws and removing the hook from the jaws. When a hook is properly placed and secured your will find tying to be easier and safer. Improper hook placement may also cause sudden release of the hook from the jaws under tension. Always wear eye protection when using a fly tying vise.