Furled Leader and drag

royal1664

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I've started to use a furled leader on the river for the duo and dry. Although this certainly aids in turning over the flies (especially a single dry) and better presentation, I'm finding the braided section is causing significant drag (there's very little difference between having my fly line sitting in the water).
I have to raise the furled leader out of the water, in the same way as my fly line, thus significantly reducing the distance I can fish at.
My set up is about 3ft of furled leader to 6ft of tapered tippet ( if fish small rivers and any longer is unworkable), previously, that gave me 9ft of drag-free mono/fluro. With this reduced to 6ft, and furled leader not being as easy to mend a fly line, I've effectively hindered myself and am going back to a taper mono.
I'm struggling to see what the benefit of braided/furled leaders is (they seem totally counter-intuitive to me in terms of a drag-free drift) - can someone explain?
 

Mrtrout

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I’ve no idea if you’re using a thread furl leader or a braided leader?
Braided leaders are nylon and absorb water, a proper furled leader made from thread should float high in the water if you have treated it properly with mucilin paste.
A furled leader is more supple than mono leaders and should move in the current better than tapered mono leaders allowing a longer drift free drag.
You state that they aid turnover and improve presentation so why don’t you just increase your tippet length by 3ft?
S.
 

Jemhill

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I'm sorry I can't help here but I've always wondered about using furled/braided leaders. I have a few Orvis ones that someone gave me ages ago and although I totally see the theory behind them I've never tried them because of the exact reason you've stated - drag. Hope you get some answers!
 

GEK79

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I'm sorry I can't help here but I've always wondered about using furled/braided leaders. I have a few Orvis ones that someone gave me ages ago and although I totally see the theory behind them I've never tried them because of the exact reason you've stated - drag. Hope you get some answers!
Jemhill Bin the Orvis ones get in touch with Mrtrout he is the yoda of furled leaders and will help with all the questions you may have.
Eoyal1664 I would agree with MrT lengthen your leader and treat the fuekiw if it's a threaded leader.. Good luck..
Gary
 

mrnotherone

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I like threaded furled leaders for small streams and do not find they drag more or less than other setups. I like the longest leader I can manage for the size of stream...usually that's a 4ft or 5ft furlie plus about the same length of tippet. If I have room, I'll use a 5ft furlie with 7ft of tippet.

I don't know why you would used 'tapered tippet' and a furled leader. The furlie should taper right down to a very small loop or tippet ring allowing you to add a length of tippet the right size for the fly. As above, get a few from Mr Trout, they are very good.

Managing drag by positioning yourself, the cast and slack in the leader is imo, the hardest thing to get right in moving water.
 

ejw

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Tried both thread and mono furled leaders, as stated the thread is better. I used to make my own, specifically for a small river, but ! Although the thread type did not cause as much drag I found on casting, especially dries, it created "spray" and could put fish down. I now only use 5' polyleaders with a small ring at the end for tying the tippet on. As stated above, it is just a matter of adjusting the tippet length to suit the area you fish.
 

Mrtrout

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Tried both thread and mono furled leaders, as stated the thread is better. I used to make my own, specifically for a small river, but ! Although the thread type did not cause as much drag I found on casting, especially dries, it created "spray" and could put fish down. I now only use 5' polyleaders with a small ring at the end for tying the tippet on. As stated above, it is just a matter of adjusting the tippet length to suit the area you fish.
You really shouldn’t get spray from a thread furled leader if it’s well treated with mucilin?
they sit on top of the water and should lift off easily no water should penetrate the thread to cause spray, it might happen on the first use but as you treat them the mucilin sinks into the thread and makes them cylindrical.
Poly leaders I found let water in and I got immense amount of spray off them.
S.
 

Mrtrout

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Rhithrogena

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I'm finding the braided section is causing significant drag
This is strange. Apologies if I misunderstand you but the leader cannot cause the drag.
It is casting across water moving at different speeds that causes drag. Maybe the drag was there all along and you notice it more with the more visible leader?
Again, apologies if this isn't the case here but the secret to controlling drag is to minimise the different seams of water you cast across, and to employ mends, reach casts, and slack line casts to build slack into the drift.
 

sagecirca

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If I am taking a beginner out on the river and their casting isn't the greatest then I generally set them up with a furled leader and short tippet as it's far easier for them to turn over. I have always found that once they become reasonably competent then nothing beats a proper nylon tapered leader especially on flat seams with multiple currents...
 

BobP

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I find the best way to avoid drag, especially on the chalkstreams, is to keep the distance you want the fly to drift to the minimum. The longer the drift the more those awkward little currents between angler and trout come into the equation.
 

Mrtrout

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If I am taking a beginner out on the river and their casting isn't the greatest then I generally set them up with a furled leader and short tippet as it's far easier for them to turn over. I have always found that once they become reasonably competent then nothing beats a proper nylon tapered leader especially on flat seams with multiple currents...
How do you keep your nylon floating?
S.
 

delray

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There is no leader set-up that can eliminate drag, but watching a good angler cast to a rising fish across 2 or 3 varying speed currents and managing/negating the drag is quite something. When I see a rising fish, that's it, that's all I see. Nothing in between me and the fish....cast....drag.....fish gone. I'm amazed I catch anything.
I once watched J Lucas lining up a rising fish. He took 10 or 15 minutes positioning himself to put in the optimal, shortest cast possible (wading). Yep, he caught it. I do try to effect this but excitement often wins and I lose.
 

Mrtrout

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Dilly wax. Couple of applications over the course of a full day usually sees it stay afloat without any issues for me.

Back in the day I used Leeda Profil 15ft leaders and added 3ft of tippet.
They were one of the better tapered leaders out there but apart from memory my biggest problem was keeping them from sinking, I used to wipe each one every three casts with red mucilin, it was a tedious job.
if they sank and you were using tiny dries especially CDC patterns the fly got pulled under and soaked.
S.
 

sagecirca

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Back in the day I used Leeda Profil 15ft leaders and added 3ft of tippet.
They were one of the better tapered leaders out there but apart from memory my biggest problem was keeping them from sinking, I used to wipe each one every three casts with red mucilin, it was a tedious job.
if they sank and you were using tiny dries especially CDC patterns the fly got pulled under and soaked.
S.
Thankfully things have moved on from ‘back in the day’ as it seems very unlikely that you’d need to reapply a floatant after every third cast - think you’re using a fair degree of artistic licence with that claim.

I can’t say I’ve found smaller flies to be dragged under by the tippet either - I generally step down my nylon to a point where that’s not an issue.

You would be forgiven for thinking you weren’t allowed to offer any critique on furled leaders on this forum...
 

Mrtrout

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Thankfully things have moved on from ‘back in the day’ as it seems very unlikely that you’d need to reapply a floatant after every third cast - think you’re using a fair degree of artistic licence with that claim.

I can’t say I’ve found smaller flies to be dragged under by the tippet either - I generally step down my nylon to a point where that’s not an issue.

You would be forgiven for thinking you weren’t allowed to offer any critique on furled leaders on this forum...
I can’t really see how things have moved on at all, Profil leaders are still favoured by many even now.
No artistic license whatsoever, I fished with one of the best dry fly anglers I have ever met, a member on here on the Clyde and he told me if he didn’t grease his tippet every three casts it would sink on him, I soon discovered the problem for myself, if you were casting an 18ft tippet towards a fish on the opposite bank of a wide river the last thing you wanted was your tippet submerged just as the fish took it. I don’t think anyone has produced a floating mono tapered leader since then, have they?
And as for furled leaders you either love them or hate them, the choice is entirely yours, you’re free to say what you like.
My question in post 14 was a genuine question to see how you kept your mono afloat, not a dig in any way, just interested.
ive never tried Dillywax on nylon before but I’ll give it a go now.
I find mucilin doesn’t attach itself to mono for a long period, perhaps dillywax does?
S.
 
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Mrtrout

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The wiggle cast is a great way to create slack across different current seams and is fun to learn
The only thing I don’t like about that is it leaves you with a lot of slack on the water and if the fish takes your fly immediately you may not connect with it, I appreciate it helps drag, just my view on it.
if I’m fishing across a fast flow I always introduce an upstream mend which can give you two or three seconds before drag kicks in.
S.
 

sagecirca

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I find mucilin doesn’t attach itself to mono for a long period, perhaps dillywax does?
S.

You need to reapply it after every 3 casts apparently - that's a claim a certain D. Trump would be proud of :ROFLMAO:

Aye, try dilly wax, I'm sure you and your buddy will find it doesn't need to be applied as much as red mucillin.
 
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