Grafham TEFF Eliminator

golden graham

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 20, 2011
Messages
1,327
Location
midlands
No results have been posted for the comp yet because.......

It seems to have been overshadowed by complaints of 'cheating' due to fishing 'out of bounds'

Shame that things have sunk so low ! :(

I hope TEFF actually take a firm decisive action that shows that 'cheating' is not acceptable.

Too many comp organizers fail to 'grasp the nettle'
 

silver nicker

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 24, 2013
Messages
386
Let's hope action is taken if rules have been broken otherwise why bother having any at all
Kind regards
 

icejohn

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 15, 2008
Messages
1,349
Location
bristol
More a moot point but surely if there is any comp not just fishing, stands to reason some people will be disqualified at some point due to wrong size flies , or boat handling complaints or foul language etc wither intentional or not.

Take football there are cards involved because of infringements.

In any competition rules actually cover treatment of infringements because its "accepted" that these things do happen occasionally.
 
Last edited:

rookstorm

Pro Member
Joined
Mar 28, 2007
Messages
3,602
Location
On a river
Its amazing how people dive right in and condemn people when the real facts havent been told. Not so clean and cut as some may think on here ,was told by a good source it was a good few boats who were fishing in a barred area ,seems no one was briefed of this before the start of the day, cant really blame the guys blame the organisers :thumbs:
 
Last edited:

benjamin_bizzell

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 22, 2013
Messages
710
Location
Benfleet - Essex
A lot of stories abounding including some that the Wardens dont even know the exact boundary lines and that the Comp Organisers was caught OOB too!?



Who knows what will happen but you can rest assured that the results will forever be argues about, some will be happy and others angry at the outcome, there will still be folk claiming there was blatant cheating and others saying that they were not told about the boundaries.


I wonder if the weather was no so bad whether anyone would have even been fishing in the area and not out on the North Shore or elsewhere!?



Benjamin
 

BobP

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 28, 2007
Messages
9,325
Location
Wiltshire
It could be argued that ignorance of the law is no defence. Try saying you didn't know it was a 30mph limit when you get pinged for speeding.

There would have been a briefing and maybe someone should have asked if there were any out of bounds areas. After all, it is not the first time an eliminator or other competition has been fished at Grafham and therefore one assumes that OOB areas apply to those and should therefore be well known.

Probably the best course of action is to declare the result null and void and to fish the match again minus the registration fee.
 

Captain Scarlet

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 1, 2009
Messages
1,365
Location
Infront of my Vice.....
Seeing as the experienced forum rumour controlled anglers are out in force....


Grafham England Qualifier.....

My personal account of what happened.

At the risk of being shot down in flames! I'm proud to have represented my country, I would hate to be seen as a blatant cheat! The competition circuit rumour jungle drums are banging loudly and things need to be made clear.

At the weigh in, there was an official announcement that there were 8 boats officially reported out of bounds, 1 was mine! Bloody typical! ��

They even announced 3 boat numbers that were on north shore all day and were nowhere near sailing club so that just sums up the accuracy of the report.

They've announced the result as it stands, as per the weigh in . After the allotted 1hr Offical deliberation that the Officals are allowed.

Over the match, over half the field ventured where they shouldn't have. That doesn't mean it's right just because others are doing it. This certainly wasn't my excuse. There were obviously 1-2 boats taking the absolute **** when it came to the limit but I would say most were a genuine mistake.

I didn't catch any of my 6 fish OOB as it happens.

The match organiser mentioned that the matter would be referred to the Angling Trust saying that they will make decision . At this point, I asked,

"if you're announcing the result as per the weigh in, then surely this is the result that stands after your official complaint deliberation, how can it be changed if you are the match official that has announced the result?"

As per AT-TEFF rules, the match officials decision is final.

However, AT only get involved on appeals according to the entry form paperwork. I'd imagine Ian Colclough and the likes make ultimate decision based on reports submitted.

Update: result decision is match organiser and officials decision only.

The out of bounds areas weren't mentioned during the brief and even the match organiser was seen OOB by other anglers. I'm pretty sure as a GWFFA member, he was fishing to the limit that he thought it was, but wasn't seen by the wardens, of which those who were OOB, weren't warned at all.

Even through the OOB limits weren't mentioned, 75% of the field are experienced anglers and all have an understanding of the sailing club rules. However, I've asked a few very experienced Grafham anglers where the Sailing club limit was and only 1 was correct.

Two wardens told me two different limits of where the fishing limit was in the space of 45mins!

I'll openly admit, as I've found out AFTER the match, that I was out of bounds. I thought the limit was one place, that I've always fished to on Grafahm, again, this doesn't make it right, as did most of the people fishing but turns out it was another 6" buoy marker further up the bank towards the lodge...12 anglers in all officially crossed this mark.

The organiser has admitted to others that I have spoken to that he forgot to mention the OOB ruling. Again this doesn't forgive what happened.

I'd actually accept the fact if they changed the result as it would finally show that they've got some *******s to sort stuff out. However, the issues mentioned, I believe that they may struggle to overturn the result. This is just my opinion.

I'm not that desperate that I would appeal any result changes, put Friday down to experience and happily pay to fish another heat. Unfortunately it's the organiser at fault yet again...

Tin hat at the ready!
 
Last edited:

rookstorm

Pro Member
Joined
Mar 28, 2007
Messages
3,602
Location
On a river
I was going to put this up for you but decided to wait till you did it yourself ,seen it on your f/book
tight lines mate and hope you get through:thumbs:
 

Chris Reeves

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 16, 2008
Messages
1,214
Location
Surrey
As Captain Scarlet has stuck his head up, I'll join him.
He is correct in saying that there was no mention of the OOB at the briefing.
That said we all knew that the sailing club was an OOB area. In 20 years of fishing Grafham the limit as far as I was concerned was from the landing stages through to the far side of the bouys. No one asked about OOB areas at the briefing.

I'm told that when the anglers car park stopped being the anglers car park the boundaries were changed as a concession to the yacht club. Apparently Captainscarlet is correct in saying that the boundary marker is now a 6" yellow buoy. There are at least 2 and possibly 3 of these between the lodge and the yacht club landing stages. Of those Grafham anglers I spoke to , No one is sure which one is which .

To put this even more into perspective, my boat partner and several other boats fished this area all day on the practice day and nothing was said either at the time or later as they came in. This despite the rangers boat going past them during the day.

We we fished up to the landing stages as did all the other boats mentioned. We did not motor through the bouys and only one boat went past the landing stages and he had something around the prop and wasn't fishing. Admittedly when the rangers went over to that boat they were well within the old OOB area but they were not fishing. This was at about 5.30 and thereafter the ranger told us we were all fishing out of bounds and pointed out the marker that was supposedly the limit.

I do not knowingly break the rules. I would not trespass into a restricted area even if it was full of 10lb overwintered fish. I have never been close to a disqualification and am a keen supporter of the disqualification of rule breakers, which puts me in a bit of a quandry. If you are going to DQ everyone who fished in that area and believe me during the day it was a lot more than 12 boats all told, then how do you make sure you get everyone?
Many boats dropped in for one drift early doors and moved on. Many more dropped in in the afternoon, fished one drift and moved off.

Sadly the bottom line is this was an organisers' mistake. Lets hope its not repeated and perhaps Anglian water and Grafham sailing club can get together and buy some proper OOB markers and subsequently let everyone know where they are so such confusion doesn't apply in the future.
Of note, at Bewl the OOB areas around the boils are designated during a match by the big orange bouys used by the sailing club for racing. Perhaps a similar scheme could be adopted?
 

Whitegoatie

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 17, 2008
Messages
6,879
Location
Stamford
Is there another sport you can name that does not have marshals, referees, linesmen, and umpires out on the field of play?

If these competitions are to be taken seriously, as obviously they are, you need marshals out on the water, policing OOB, conduct and methods.

Relying on most of the anglers having X amount of years experience fishing the water of the competition is not enough.

Station a boat at the OOB, no argument.

Marshall the anglers with random spot checks while out on the water, no argument.

Put the effort into marshalling the events and you might find more anglers taking part.
 

Chris Reeves

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 16, 2008
Messages
1,214
Location
Surrey
When John Mees was at Grafham there was always a Rangers boat out in big comps. and he would help you do fly checks etc

A full time Marshall's boat is a very good idea and given the £30 entry fee the cost should be easily covered.
 

Whitegoatie

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 17, 2008
Messages
6,879
Location
Stamford
When John Mees was at Grafham there was always a Rangers boat out in big comps. and he would help you do fly checks etc



A full time Marshall's boat is a very good idea and given the £30 entry fee the cost should be easily covered.



Local club members would probably be happy to do it. Might also have the benefit of generating more local interest in the comps.
 

Rob Edmunds

Well-known member
Joined
May 8, 2008
Messages
3,775
Location
Midlands Reservoirs
I must admit i'm astonished at the level of incompetance

Now I don't do the Eliminators anymore....but I was out on the day in question on a "pleasure day" and it was a 25mph wind gusting 30mph. Now I absolutely love the rough conditions but it was choppy even by my standards......I have never seen or fished in a match on Anglian Water Reservoirs in such extreme conditions -Yet the North Shore was not even called out of bounds.

Still i wanted to give it a go and I started at Hedge End - and soon decided it was unfishable so opted for A - buoy to the Dam for some degree of shelter

Usually in a big important match in adverse conditions boats will be restricted to half the reservoir - ie from the Nature Reserve to the Dam Tower....this will mean you can't fish the rough dangerous areas (besides with 80% of the fish in the first 50m from the bank you wouldn't want too)

By allowing boats on the North Shore in 25MPH+ winds the fishery was negligent, and so too were the organisors - Chris Mcloud even sunk his boat - had their been a injury or death well the consequences are massive for those concerned.......

Boats are not allowed out on Anglian Waters in winds over 22mph - Rutland & Pitsford didn't allow boats out on the day in question - so why on Grafham ??

Anyway back to the point - If the organisor didn't mention "Out of bounds areas" in the briefing why didn't you just go and fish in the Nature Reserve or actually on the Boils ??

I motored back to the lodge at 1:30 from the Dam through the Sailing Club (for shelter) and personally saw 3 boats literally 5ft off the sailing club pontoons or bank drifting out 30m then cutting back in.

Now I do actually know the limits of where I can and can't fish on Grafham (basically because I want to fish right up to the limit in any match and not get disqualified - a bit like the offside rule)....this wasn't even close...it was well out of bounds.

Saying it wasn't mentioned at the briefing is a bit of a cop out.....you're all experienced anglers who know the score, know the fishery rules and know what international rules are..... did they mention the use of goldheads in the briefing?? - if not why didn't you use them ?? The Sailing Club out of bounds area is clearly marked on the fishery map - just as the nature reserve is.

"Jack" was the Warden on duty and lets be honest he's only been full time since the start of this season, and is very young he's not organised competitions so he probably wouldn't know the exact out of bounds areas at the Sailing Club - I've little doubt though that the experienced competition anglers out there - who have been fishing Grafham for 5- 20 years do know the exact areas, and little will convince me otherwise.

However I will say that in my opinion there should have been a impartial adjudicator running the comp.....actually on the water who could give an opinion on matters and to take appropriate action (sin bin boats, disqualification for repeat offenders etc..)

Personally I can't see how the result can now be overturned, if the official complaints procedure is followed and the result has been read out - if it was to change (and I was affected) then i would raise a formal appeal

Besides why is everyone getting so upset ?? it's not like the old days when you get one entry for the England Eliminator per year and once you are eliminated your chance is gone for 12 months........I believe it's now enter as many times as you want !! WTF :eek:
 
Last edited:

golden graham

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 20, 2011
Messages
1,327
Location
midlands
Being disqualified might be the least of the offender's problems.

I hear that four anglers verbally abused Jack and someone threatened physical violence. (tossers) :mad:

Anglian Water are considering banning said four angler from the water or group of waters permanently.

Well done AW for having the balls :thumbs:
 

jack_russell

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 17, 2014
Messages
867
Location
Sunny Cornwall
Rob Edmunds said "Saying it wasn't mentioned at the briefing is a bit of a cop out.....you're all experienced anglers who know the score, know the fishery rules and know what international rules are..... did they mention the use of goldheads in the briefing?? - if not why didn't you use them ?? The Sailing Club out of bounds area is clearly marked on the fishery map - just as the nature reserve is."

Totally agree matey - it's quite clear that its up to the anglers/competitors to know the rules - both the fishery rules (Inc OOB) & the teff General competition rules; as you say they aren't going to mention that dog nobblers & 4in minkies aren't allowed!

......& if they did run through all rules the briefing would last for ever!

So the "it wasn't mentioned in the briefing" brigade I feel are looking for an excuse or justification.

After all we all know you fish to the fishery rules UNLESS stated otherwise.

Anyway - any news yet on when the result will be formalised/announced?
 
Last edited:

tenet

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 24, 2007
Messages
1,507
Who wants to get into all this aggro - always the same when you introduce competition into the equation. Lots of egos being dented along with dolls, dummy tits and teddy bears being thrown from prams. Not for me thankfully.
 
Joined
Feb 29, 2008
Messages
11,269
Location
The Styx
What a woeful, embarrassing episode in the history of fishing, for all concerned. I've been lucky enough to watch a few friendly competitions in and around my way lately and was struck by the good humour and piss-taking prevalent all round. No rules broken, no threats of violence and we all met up in the pub for a drink afterwards.

The minute a load of old silly-bollocks is threatened the people concerned cease to be anglers IMHO. What a crock. :mad:
 

Captain Scarlet

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 1, 2009
Messages
1,365
Location
Infront of my Vice.....
Keeping things open and honest, as I believe it should be with something like this.

I received my DQ letter, and have no argument with it. None whatsoever, as per my original reply on here. Marked down to experience and move on. I've entered the Rutland qualifier...

Out of the 8 that have been DQ'd, 4 that I know have received letters, my boat partners went to an angler who was literally over 120 miles away on the day. I understand this has been rectified.

The other 4 anglers, 1 which I've spoken too, was nowhere near the "death zone" on the day. And is rightfully upset about this.

As for threats of bans from some/all AW's, there was a discussion I hear that AW were going to ban all of the anglers had nothing been done by ATTEFF, but this I must say is just what I've been told of.

I will say however, I spoke with Jack twice, as he was one warden I spoke to while I was on the water, and both times we had to shout to each other to be heard due to wind, Jack, as he should, was outside of the buoys/moorings completely. There was certainly no complaints on the day of threatening behavior towards anglers or Wardens/Rangers, I'd imagine if there was, this would have been dealt with swiftly and severely.

The Q&NC has mentioned that the result will be posted provisionally ASAP, then once the 7 day appeal window has passed, the amended result will be confirmed.
 

jack_russell

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 17, 2014
Messages
867
Location
Sunny Cornwall
Hi Captain, Sorry to hear you have been DQ'd - but regarding the big picture I guess at least action has been taken by the organisers which was essential.

Inaction would have led to a loss of confidence & devalued the qualification process.

Well Impressed that you have accepted the organisers decision & taken it on the chin - Well done! Some people wouldn't be so magnanimous! :thumbs:

Good luck at rutland - mind you that qualifier looks to be struggling for numbers - go for draycote later on instead! ;)
 
Top