How far does a good caster shoot

James9118

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Given some of the bollox on other parts of this forum about casting I thought I'd start a sensible thread, perhaps to dispel some misconceptions about casting. This has been shown elsewhere on the internet but I thought I'd put it here also. Rather than than take statements like 'you can only shoot half the amount of line you can carry', I tend to go out and measure things for myself.

Here is a chart showing how far Tracy cast from a given carry. The carry (measured from the hauling hand to the tip of the fly line) was fixed first and then Tracy made a cast without slipping any line before making the final shoot. The cast was then measured. At each carry, starting from 5m up to 20m in 2.5m intervals, Tracy made 10 casts. At 22.5m carry there were only 3 casts made as she was knackered from making over 70 distance casts on the trot. The results from this test are shown below.

Tracy carry dist.JPG
 
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Rhithrogena

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Very nice little experiment, thanks!
So in summary, Tracy 'shot' the same as the carry on shorter casts and a bit less as the casts got longer?
I wonder if this would have been the same if she had started with the longer casts?
Get her out there again, please 😂
 

pati

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Hi

I don’t Know who Tracy is but she is a good distance caster!!!!!

In my opinion a better caster is not about distance but rather someone who consistently masters accuracy and trick casts at fishing distance: overhand and underhand, roll cast, left curve, right curves (left or right shoulder cast), tuck cast, aerial mends, S-curved leader with lots of slack, single hand Spey etc.: these are what gives you the edge in fishing situation!

Generally though if you can do distance you can also do the rest.


On my side I do a lot of the above but unfortunately it comes out in the wrong order over the day!!!! :-D
I fished once with Jacques Boycko (he was France team captain for a long time and the team won gold medal at world championship a few times): he would tell you before each cast: I will do this and the fly will land there and leader will land here in that way so that the drift will be... Systematically the cast would deliver exactly what was announced (and more often than not result in a fish)... Just unbelievable for a common mortal like me!!!
 

James9118

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In my opinion a better caster is not about distance but rather someone who consistently masters accuracy and trick casts at fishing distance: overhand and underhand, roll cast, left curve, right curves (left or right shoulder cast), tuck cast, aerial mends, S-curved leader with lots of slack, single hand Spey etc.: these are what gives you the edge in fishing situation!

Generally though if you can do distance you can also do the rest.
Tracy is quite good at distance but your point about being good at distance generally means you can do the rest is very valid - she's also the BFCC and UK Casting Sport women's fly accuracy record holder.
 

James9118

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The actual shoot in the above casts can be estimated. These are estimations because to be absolute you have to guarantee that the leader is perfectly straight, so there will be an error, albeit a small one (I was measuring and did not notice a single 'piled' leader in all the casts she made). The total cast distance is carry + Shoot + leader, so subtracting the leader length and plotting shoot (as a percentage of carry) against carry gives the following:

Tracy shoot per.JPG

Tracy's results were very similar to mine in terms of the overall trend (my results were slightly more 'noisy')
 
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pati

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Tracy is quite good at distance but your point about being good at distance generally means you can do the rest is very valid - she's also the BFCC and UK Casting Sport women's fly accuracy record holder.

That explains the consistency in the distances on her plot chart! Impressive!!!!
 

andygrey

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Where the casts made with a 5wt and MED?
It would be very interesting to see results from a shorter rear taper line.
 

andygrey

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What are the conclusions from this? Naive Q, but I don't think I'm quite getting it, iyswim.
Well, it shows a very strong and linear correlation between line carry and distance shot! (STBO)
If asked what I though the results would be before actually seeing them I would have guessed that there would be a gradual plateau of the curve rather than being very linear. Again, I'd be very interested to see the results from the same experiment with a shorter head line, assuming of course that the casts in question were made with a MED.
@James9118 What would you prediction of this be?
 

James9118

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Where the casts made with a 5wt and MED?
It would be very interesting to see results from a shorter rear taper line.
The line she used was a Ballistic Pro Performance

The total head-length of this line is 18m and the biggest % shoots (but not the longest casts) were achieved with the carry point closest to this i.e. 17.5m.

I've heard it mentioned quite a lot that a caster can shoot 50% of what they carry, in Tracy's case (and in my own data) it seems like this might be an under-estimation with Tracy averaging over 70% at a carry close to the head length.

James
 

rusty

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Presumably the cleanliness and dressing of the line would have a noticeable impact.
Can you comment on these, please?

Rusty
 

James9118

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Presumably the cleanliness and dressing of the line would have a noticeable impact.
Can you comment on these, please?

Rusty
Yes, very important but unfortunately I don't have actual numbers to quantify this. It's clear when practising the new, dressed (not to the point of being sticky) lines shoot better, so much so that I have casting competition lines and I have 'practice' lines. The comp lines are in as near to perfect condition as I can get.

What some distance casters do (myself included) is twist the rings 90 degrees out of plane with the reel when going for the maximum. This potentially reduces the friction with the blank a bit - it certainly seems to work for me.

James.
 

aenoon

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The actual shoot in the above casts can be estimated. These are estimations because to be absolute you have to guarantee that the leader is perfectly straight, so there will be an error, albeit a small one (I was measuring and did not notice a single 'piled' leader in all the casts she made). The total cast distance is carry + Shoot + leader, so subtracting the leader length and plotting shoot (as a percentage of carry) against carry gives the following:

View attachment 37854
Tracy's results were very similar to mine in terms of the overall trend (my results were slightly more 'noisy')
Your results seem to suggest a little bit of the forcing, machismo like stroke, now and again, where as Tracy's seem to suggest repetitive smoooooothness!
Given the b ollox you refer to, I assume you were both using same #5 weight rod and same line!
regards
Bert
 

James9118

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Your results seem to suggest a little bit of the forcing, machismo like stroke, now and again, where as Tracy's seem to suggest repetitive smoooooothness!
Given the b ollox you refer to, I assume you were both using same #5 weight rod and same line!
regards
Bert
:) Are you trying to imply that Tracy is a better caster than me? You won't be the first :ROFLMAO:
To be fair to me, my results were impacted by the backwash from a building meaning the turn over of the leader was very hit and miss - this gave the inconsistency in my distances. Tracy cast on an open field and had near perfect turn-over on all 70 odd casts.
Yes, we both used the same outfit.

Cheers, James
 

rusty

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Yes, very important but unfortunately I don't have actual numbers to quantify this. It's clear when practising the new, dressed (not to the point of being sticky) lines shoot better, so much so that I have casting competition lines and I have 'practice' lines. The comp lines are in as near to perfect condition as I can get.

What some distance casters do (myself included) is twist the rings 90 degrees out of plane with the reel when going for the maximum. This potentially reduces the friction with the blank a bit - it certainly seems to work for me.

James.
Hi James
It sounds as if you have the perfect opportunity to compare the difference if you have similar lines in 'as used' and optimum dressing. It would be interesting to know the order of difference.
I sometimes clean lines and wipe with Armour All. After this I impress myself!
I have heard of the 90 degree reel offset before. I have even heard of people putting on a reel seat at 90 degrees to achieve the advantage but with four piece rods the effect can be achieved with a quick twist.
Rusty
 

ohanzee

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Its a brilliantly clear and consistent result(I want to give extra kudos for the near perfect turn over on all casts) but its too good a benchmark to not do a follow up with a different line, the assumption is a short heavy head shoots further/same without the carry...that could be interesting.
 

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