Improving my casting distance.

speytime

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I fully agree that it is a great technique to put into your casting, my main problem with it is that it is a bit too complex a technique for most beginners who you're inevitably telling to keep a stiff wrist!
Yes right enough at the time the consensus was to hold your wrist firm, me being new to all tried both and felt that the power snap offered resistance in a sense so I could get a better feel of the cast, casting with a firm wrist I thought felt a bit vague unless I went up #1 weight.

Al
 

ohanzee

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My wrists are very thin, so impossible to lock, but compensate with holding the correct arc with my shoulder and elbow. A light reel is just too tiring- nothing to anchor with.

This doesn't make a lot of sense, it takes no effort or strength to lock your wrist, if you hold the rod as you would to shake hands(do this with an imaginary rod now) and rotate your wrist(thumb to the left for r/h casters) back of the hand facing up, the tendons in your arm lock, the more you rotate the more fixed your wrist will become.

Try it.

If you cast with the back of your hand up you have complete control of your wrist, it prevents wrist break on the back cast and gives you more flex forward to thrust in the forward cast, the result is an instantly higher back cast and more rod rotation in the forward cast.
 

speytime

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If I'm fishing with a rod I need to balance then casts are pretty infrequent just lifting and immediately putting it back out to swing round, the energy/effort expenditure would be much great trying to counter act the downward pull of a weighed x long lever than it is to add weight, it's physics/mechanics/leverage or something 😂

Al
 

boisker

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My wrists are very thin, so impossible to lock, but compensate with holding the correct arc with my shoulder and elbow. A light reel is just too tiring- nothing to anchor with.
on the weight of the reel subject, Sage’s Esn reel, has a range of weights to add, that come with it to tune the reels weight, to balance with longer rods.
Lightweight is a marketing “usp” to sell Far Eastern machined to death reels against good quality reels from the likes of Abel ATH Allen Hatch Islander Tibor Ross Bellinger Saracione Finnor Loop Vosseler and Gardy Alnwick built-most of their reels are heavier for a good reason, granted they make a few lighter models, but most of their trout reels are in the 5-8 ounce zone

the weights were designed with ‘euro’ nymphing in mind, where the rod is held elevated without any line (or at best a very thin/micro thin line) off the reel... it’s got nothing to do with casting
 

andygrey

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the weights were designed with ‘euro’ nymphing in mind, where the rod is held elevated without any line (or at best a very thin/micro thin line) off the reel... it’s got nothing to do with casting
...or indeed with 'Euro Nymphing' when the rod is generally held out at arms-length which makes the shoulder the fulcrum. So, lighter the reel the better. Though I'm sure that Sage will sell a few more reels with their snake-oil marketing...
 

ed_t

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I don't always present my flies perfectly but folk have been kind enough to say that my casting is quite good. By the way I am she not he, so I might not have the same strength as some of the gentlemen to get the line out but I seem to equal others. Trying to avoid the gender debate going on elsewhere on the forum!
Best advice I could give to anyone on the forum wanting to improve distance or accuracy is go to a bfcc casting day: £20 for more tuition than you can handle but a whole day of it so some of it sticks.

You get beaten by kids, adults and oap's in every class, but with an open mind you can learn.

Avoid the T38 though, that hurts.
 

Hardrar

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Best advice I could give to anyone on the forum wanting to improve distance or accuracy is go to a bfcc casting day: £20 for more tuition than you can handle but a whole day of it so some of it sticks.

You get beaten by kids, adults and oap's in every class, but with an open mind you can learn.

Avoid the T38 though, that hurts.

o
This doesn't make a lot of sense, it takes no effort or strength to lock your wrist, if you hold the rod as you would to shake hands(do this with an imaginary rod now) and rotate your wrist(thumb to the left for r/h casters) back of the hand facing up, the tendons in your arm lock, the more you rotate the more fixed your wrist will become.

Try it.

If you cast with the back of your hand up you have complete control of your wrist, it prevents wrist break on the back cast and gives you more flex forward to thrust in the forward cast, the result is an instantly higher back cast and more rod rotation in the forward cast.

I’m double jointed so have very flexible joints and after over 50 years I don’t really want or need to start changing now, when I don’t have any issues with either casting or catching fish, most experienced casters don’t lock their wrists, as wrist break and drift is seen as technically superior with better control-if I started doing any different I could end up injured. What you do is irrelevant, how well your line rolls out over the water is all that matters. I was once on a Salmon and trout association course over several days both single and double handed and I witnessed the casting examiner tell the World No 2 Spey casting competitor, just behind Scott Mackenzie, who was sponsored by Daiwa and only 21 at the time, being told he was doing it all wrong, the lad was pretty upset, to say the least!
When the examiner got to me, I asked him why he was doing it all wrong and to demonstrate to me how he could cast the same distance “right” he couldn’t, he just liked belittling someone far better than him.
On the balance issue or “fulcrum point,” it should be one to three inches from the winding check on a single handed rod and three to six on a double handed. If not your reels too light or heavy. Spey casters, regularly will put lead core line on a reel first, then backing on top, before the fly line to add weight to a reel to achieve this balance.
Fly rods in the early days used to have the reel mounted in front of the grip, like with coarse and spinning rods, but it was soon moved to the rear to balance the outfit, if balance didn’t matter, why aren’t reels in the same position as on a spinning or coarse rod?
Kelly Galloup,Joan Wulff, Flip Pallot, Steve Rajeff, Michael Evans in their books and teachings all talk about the importance of the Fulcrum or balance point being in this 1 to 3 inch back from the winding check zone on a single handed rod.
I don’t see why people feel this is wrong, it’s common sense and the laws of physics and just plain awful to use a tip heavy outfit.
 
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PaulD

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I don’t see why people feel this is wrong, it’s common sense and the laws of physics and just plain awful to use a tip heavy outfit.

"I can honestly say that there has been a whole heap of rubbish talked about using a reel to balance the rod. The reel does not balance the rod, it is irrelevant: take it off and stick it in your pocket and you'll see what I mean. A rod which is 'tip-heavy' is one which feels unnecessarily heavy up top and will never feel pleasant, no matter how heavy a reel you stick on the other end."

Paul Arden, Sexyloops, APGAI
 

Tangled

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I don’t see why people feel this is wrong, it’s common sense and the laws of physics and just plain awful to use a tip heavy outfit.

I don't see how it's either common sense or the laws of physics. The rod and arm acts mostly as a single component, if you ignore the wrist snap there is no hinge where a balancing weight could aid the motion of the rod.

In fact any weight added to a stiff system like that just adds to the effort needed to move the system. I know it used to be said that balancing rod with reel was necessary but these days the majority opinion is that everything needs to be as light as practically possible.
 

Paul_B

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When I go to Hardys they always ask what reel I use and put a similar one onto the rod that I'm going to try, so whats that about.
As for the wrist snap, think darts and how you throw them, however and more importantly and its just my opinion is the best cast is the one you feel comfortable with.

I'd also like to thank Val for asking the question (y)
 

sailingval

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When I go to Hardys they always ask what reel I use and put a similar one onto the rod that I'm going to try, so whats that about.
As for the wrist snap, think darts and how you throw them, however and more importantly and its just my opinion is the best cast is the one you feel comfortable with.

I'd also like to thank Val for asking the question (y)

Thanks for that. At one point (near the beginning) I wished I hadn't asked it. But most folk haven't been condescending and some good advice has been given.
 

PaulD

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When I go to Hardys they always ask what reel I use and put a similar one onto the rod that I'm going to try, so whats that about.

They're trying to make you feel 'comfortable', to make your experience with the new rod as close a sensation as they can to what you're used to already.
 

andygrey

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Fly rods in the early days used to have the reel mounted in front of the grip, like with coarse and spinning rods, but it was soon moved to the rear to balance the outfit, if balance didn’t matter, why aren’t reels in the same position as on a spinning or coarse rod?
Kelly Galloup,Joan Wulff, Flip Pallot, Steve Rajeff, Michael Evans in their books and teachings all talk about the importance of the Fulcrum or balance point being in this 1 to 3 inch back from the winding check zone on a single handed rod.
I don’t see why people feel this is wrong, it’s common sense and the laws of physics and just plain awful to use a tip heavy outfit.
With respect... I think you are confusing 2 things here.
Following your logic, the further towards the reel is towards the butt of the rod the better. This made an improvement from old rods where the reel was ahead of the handle as it moved the mass of the reel further from the tip which reduces the moment of inertia (which is a good thing). Nothing to do with balancing the rod around the handle. Follow this to its natural conclusion and removing the reel altogether will further reduce the moment of inertia.
For casting, the lighter the reel the better. There is an argument that having the rod balanced around the handle when holding the rod whilst fishing can be more comfortable but the suggestion that balancing the rod around the handle suggest that the handle is the fulcrum. There are actually 3 main fulcrums in fly casting - shoulder, elbow and wrist - plus a whole load more when you start to consider more complicated body movements and then actual 'true' fulcrum isn't at any of these single points but in some casts probably somewhere near your feet and moves during the casting stroke.
 

ohanzee

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o


I’m double jointed so have very flexible joints and after over 50 years I don’t really want or need to start changing now, when I don’t have any issues with either casting or catching fish, most experienced casters don’t lock their wrists, as wrist break and drift is seen as technically superior with better control-if I started doing any different I could end up injured. What you do is irrelevant, how well your line rolls out over the water is all that matters. I was once on a Salmon and trout association course over several days both single and double handed and I witnessed the casting examiner tell the World No 2 Spey casting competitor, just behind Scott Mackenzie, who was sponsored by Daiwa and only 21 at the time, being told he was doing it all wrong, the lad was pretty upset, to say the least!
When the examiner got to me, I asked him why he was doing it all wrong and to demonstrate to me how he could cast the same distance “right” he couldn’t, he just liked belittling someone far better than him.
On the balance issue or “fulcrum point,” it should be one to three inches from the winding check on a single handed rod and three to six on a double handed. If not your reels too light or heavy. Spey casters, regularly will put lead core line on a reel first, then backing on top, before the fly line to add weight to a reel to achieve this balance.
Fly rods in the early days used to have the reel mounted in front of the grip, like with coarse and spinning rods, but it was soon moved to the rear to balance the outfit, if balance didn’t matter, why aren’t reels in the same position as on a spinning or coarse rod?
Kelly Galloup,Joan Wulff, Flip Pallot, Steve Rajeff, Michael Evans in their books and teachings all talk about the importance of the Fulcrum or balance point being in this 1 to 3 inch back from the winding check zone on a single handed rod.
I don’t see why people feel this is wrong, it’s common sense and the laws of physics and just plain awful to use a tip heavy outfit.

I could pull this to bits quite easily, I presume Gerard Downey but it was Scott MacKenzie that was sponsored by Daiwa.

The fulcrum on a single handed rod is where we put it, no central point for both hands to lever around, unlike spey and spinning rods you have only one handle, and the rod doesn't pivot at the handle.
 

ohanzee

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There are actually 3 main fulcrums in fly casting - shoulder, elbow and wrist - plus a whole load more when you start to consider more complicated body movements and then actual 'true' fulcrum isn't at any of these single points but in some casts probably somewhere near your feet and moves during the casting stroke.

This explains very well.
 

ohanzee

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When I go to Hardys they always ask what reel I use and put a similar one onto the rod that I'm going to try, so whats that about.

When you go to test a rod you use a line you are familiar with, generally you would take your own reel.
 

PaulD

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What do these statements have in common?

* I am double jointed.
* Fly lines are designed to suit rods.
* Fly reels are designed to suit rods.
* There is a combination of rod, reel and line that will improve my casting.
* If you go out with wet hair you will catch a cold.

Answer:

They're all old wives tales.
 
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