Is this cheating?

BobP

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Ah, but movement of and in the fly pattern signifies life.

I hardly doubt the OP is skating "pellet flies" across the surface. I've never seen a pellet move.

Imitating pellets... and there I thought I had heard it all. I'd rather take up another hobby.
There is absolutely no movement in a buzzer coated in superglue or HaN. Ir deceives solely on its appearance and by being where a buzzer ought to be.

old hooker, I don't use breathers on my buzzer patterns, and if I did they would be of white Antron which is man-made. Many of my buzzer patterns use Spanflex for the body, tying thread for the thorax and holographic tinsel for the cheeks. Nothing "natural" there.

Having said that my most successful go-to buzzer for Farmoor is an updated Cove nymph using cock pheasant for the body, and a seal fur mix for the thorax behind a black, copper or silver tungsten bead. I'd as soon leave my rods behind as go fishing without that one.
 

thetrouttickler

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There is absolutely no movement in a buzzer coated in superglue or HaN. Ir deceives solely on its appearance and by being where a buzzer ought to be.
Your point was what does a cats whisker imitate. My answer was simply, something alive, hence an animate, natural thing. The rest doesn't matter.

I'd be happy to fish a buzzer because it imitates a living creature and is a "natural" food source. Whether it moves or not is irrelevant.

I would not imitate an inanimate, unnatural thing as a pellet. Perhaps the main reason is because humans have conditioned reared fish to be unwary of pellets. It's unsporting in my view.
 

speytime

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I think the more fish you catch the more fussy you become about how you catch them, fishing is a journey it changes/progresses as you go (I've found) there was a time when I just wanted a bend in the rod if that had have been by a pellet imitation I'd have used one.

Al
 

Wee Jimmy

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I think the more fish you catch the more fussy you become about how you catch them, fishing is a journey it changes/progresses as you go Al
I’ll go along with that alright and it even goes beyond that.At one time I was happy to be catching fish OTB just as long as I was on dries.Now I’ve got to be covering risers, fish coming blind doesn’t quite cut the mustard the way it used to.Reading the direction of the rise,judging the right amount of lead to give them and delivering the flies accurately so that they land just where I want them to,is what does it for me.
 

Paul_B

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Using a catapult to chuck gravel into the water to make fish think it was feeding time could be classed as cheating and I've seen it done.
 

BobP

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A bit of confusion there trouttickler. A Cats Whisker is most definitely inanimate as it isn't alive, and it sure as hell ain't natural so on those two bases a trout pellet is superior because the fish can actually eat it and derive nourishment from it.

I like buzzer fishing because on the whole it is more effective in the long run and I always get a kick when I catch a fish on a buzzer and look in its mouth to see naturals, some still alive. Then I know I've fooled that fish into accepting my imitation as just another easy buzzer.

However, I DO agree with you that to use such things as pellets is not particularly sporting. Having said that it is not unusual for many "sporting" anglers to stoop to less than sporting, some might say thoroughly underhand, methods in order to catch fish.

There's the good old chuck the "dregs" from your cup of coffee trick, and there's that very exaggerated and slow casting action which a closer look reveals as a large white substance flopping onto the water.
 

thetrouttickler

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A bit of confusion there trouttickler. A Cats Whisker is most definitely inanimate as it isn't alive, and it sure as hell ain't natural so on those two bases a trout pellet is superior because the fish can actually eat it and derive nourishment
No confusion Bob, well to me at least. The point is that whilst it may be hard to say what a cat's whisker represents, your initial point, it is stripped through the water. The pattern has a hint of life in it too. To the trout, that movement therefore represents something alive i.e. natural. That's why im comfortable with it. A pellet is inanimate. Cheers.
 
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ohanzee

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No confusion Bob, well to me at least. The point is that whilst it may be hard to say what a cat's whisker represents, your initial point, it is stripped through the water. The pattern has a hint of life in it too. To the trout, that movement therefore represents something alive i.e. natural. That's why im comfortable with it. A pellet is inanimate. Cheers.
But if you strip the pellet do you not have the same representation of life?

The pellet lure:cool:
 

pusser

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I was fishing a local river on Saturday (the trout season in that particular area doesn't finish until 15th Oct), using a nymph and small foam indicator. the indicator is bright green and made from a 9mm booby eye foam section folded in half. On one cast the indicator landed on the water and a very large trout came up to it and snaffled it - I even had pressure on the fish for around 5 seconds! So, a bright green lump of foam, with no hair/feather or any other dressing, and no hook, bought a large fish up in a deep pool. I have to admit i'm still shocked that this happened, but it certainly makes you wonder what the fish are seeing when our imitations land on the water and does that extra turn of hackle or extra fibbet of tail material really make a difference? My indicator is certainly inanimate, but one fish certainly wanted to have a meal of it. And, was I cheating? ;)
 

thetrouttickler

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I was fishing a local river on Saturday (the trout season in that particular area doesn't finish until 15th Oct), using a nymph and small foam indicator. the indicator is bright green and made from a 9mm booby eye foam section folded in half. On one cast the indicator landed on the water and a very large trout came up to it and snaffled it - I even had pressure on the fish for around 5 seconds! So, a bright green lump of foam, with no hair/feather or any other dressing, and no hook, bought a large fish up in a deep pool. I have to admit i'm still shocked that this happened, but it certainly makes you wonder what the fish are seeing when our imitations land on the water and does that extra turn of hackle or extra fibbet of tail material really make a difference? My indicator is certainly inanimate, but one fish certainly wanted to have a meal of it. And, was I cheating? ;)
A couple of similar stories.

I was walking out of a river valley in NZ. It was cicada season, large bugs which struggle to fly well and splash into the water really hard when they fail. It gets the trout excitable. We were walking downstream behind trees and spotted a large fish ahead of us, downriver. My mate said, "watch this" and snapped off a twig from a tree, about half the length of an index finger. He threw it into the water next to us, so that it made a splash, and when it drifted downstream the fish came up and took it. A twig. And a supposedly smart, ultra spooky large New Zealand trout.

I was fishing the upper Blackfoot in Montana. The river of "A River Runs Through It". In America they use those plastic bubble "thingamabobbers" as indicators. When in Rome, and all that, so I had on an orange plastic bubble as an indicator. The water was rough and these really were the best bet at keeping afloat. You guessed it, a cutthroat came up and took it.

Sometimes we give too much credit to trout.
 

pusser

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Sometimes we give too much credit to trout.
Indeed, which is why I find it amusing when you see people commenting on flies that others have tied, mocking the fact that 'there is too much hackle', or 'too many turns of ribbing', or 'the tail is too long' etc etc. I tie my own flies, I tie a fly pattern that is simple (for me) to tie, it doesn't look specifically like any particular pattern, but it catches fish with no problem whatsoever - the same for my nymph patterns. And i'm sure that the same is true for many others who tie their own flies.
 

morayfisher

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Similarly, during a casting lesson I had a piece of white wool tied to the end of the leader. After a cast or two I left the line in the water whilst talking to the instructor and a trout took it and held on for a few seconds.
 

Wee Jimmy

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Those are isolated instances in the overall scheme of things though.Otherwise we would all be catching trout despite ourselves,standing in full view with any old shyte on the end of our line every time we go fishing.
For every mistaken stick and white wool incident ,I bet most folk can remember fifty others where our best efforts were treated with total apathy.
 

morayfisher

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Might be different if you spent countless hours with just a bit of white wool on the end, you might get a few more takes then.
I've seen a video of a lure angler taking fish with a bit of bootlace on a hook.
 

Wee Jimmy

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Might be different if you spent countless hours with just a bit of white wool on the end, you might get a few more takes then.
.
Well there’s your next challenge.....let us all know how that goes.

Someone caught a pike using a top set of false teeth with a treble attached....:D
I don’t think I’ll be trading in my bulldogs just yet.
 
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morayfisher

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Well there’s your next challenge.....let us all know how that goes.

Someone caught a pike using a top set of false teeth with a treble attached....:D
I don’t think I’ll be trading in my bulldogs just yet.
I’ve only just started tying my own. It will be a bit boring if they are all just a bit of white wool whipped on a hook :whistle:
 

suzuki15hp

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Those are isolated instances in the overall scheme of things though.Otherwise we would all be catching trout despite ourselves,standing in full view with any old shyte on the end of our line every time we go fishing.
For every mistaken stick and white wool incident ,I bet most folk can remember fifty others where our best efforts were treated with total apathy.
Isolated instances indeed. What about that women a few years back who hooked and landed a 32 lb pike on Menteith on a buzzer. I don't think she went on to fish for specimen pike using buzzers. :confused:
 

Wee Jimmy

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I’ve only just started tying my own. It will be a bit boring if they are all just a bit of white wool whipped on a hook :whistle:
Do them in a range of sizes and throw in a bootlace or two just to break the monotony....;-):joking:

- - - Updated - - -

Isolated instances indeed. What about that women a few years back who hooked and landed a 32 lb pike on Menteith on a buzzer. I don't think she went on to fish for specimen pike using buzzers. :confused:

No...I think she’s still trying to get out of the car park Bill...:thumbs:
 

BobP

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Isolated instances indeed. What about that women a few years back who hooked and landed a 32 lb pike on Menteith on a buzzer. I don't think she went on to fish for specimen pike using buzzers. :confused:
My personal best pike of 18lbs approx. was caught on a size 10 buzzer from a boat on Chew. Fairly hooked inside the mouth and boated in less than five minutes once I realised what it was. I assumed that it would bite off the leader while in play so really gave it some stick.

Oddly enough my personal best reservoir brown of 6lbs+ was caught from the same location on Chew a year later on the same buzzer pattern.

A chap at Farmoor used a dry called the Ducati which is simply white Antron tied on a hook in a V shape. I've watched him do it on several occasions so I know it isn't a one-off.
 

suzuki15hp

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My personal best pike of 18lbs approx. was caught on a size 10 buzzer from a boat on Chew. Fairly hooked inside the mouth and boated in less than five minutes once I realised what it was. I assumed that it would bite off the leader while in play so really gave it some stick.

Oddly enough my personal best reservoir brown of 6lbs+ was caught from the same location on Chew a year later on the same buzzer pattern.

A chap at Farmoor used a dry called the Ducati which is simply white Antron tied on a hook in a V shape. I've watched him do it on several occasions so I know it isn't a one-off.
I think a lady angler landing a 32 lb pike on a buzzer is a very isolated incident indeed. Catching tiddlers like your 18 lb'er is neither here nor there.:fish:
 

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