'Mono Rig' for Salmon

[JCP]

Here in Dorset and Hampshire the salmon more so summer grilse nymphing evolved from trout nymphing methods used by Frank Sawyer and one Oliver Kite.Whereby a weighted PT nymph lifted from the bottom in front of a fish would very often ''induce'' a postive take.This was close range fishing and I guess a forerunner of what we now term as ''tightline'' nymphing.I was introduced to the salmon/sea trout possibilities using this method by one ''Donny'' Donovan a Keeper on Hampshire's lower test and Graham Purbrick then based at Testwood.Heavy hackled creations were used like Woolly B's and B&P Spiders.Other patterns have evolved since then in the form of heavy nymphs which sink fast to enable the ''lift'' simulating natural prey which hopefully flicks the switch.To be honest it is much like fishing a worm with a sink and draw technique.The worm usually results in a killed fish which is much less desirable nowadays.Water flow will dictate ''nymph'' weight to use.Method based on sight fishing or known lies.My rigs for this are mono based but here is a link to give a very general idea.

JP

 

[Rhithrogena]

Water flow will dictate ''nymph'' weight to use.Method based on sight fishing or known lies.My rigs for this are mono based but here is a link to give a very general idea

Hello JP,
This is very useful, thank you
Rich

 

[bobmiddlepoint]

I know some of the guys on the Fowey used to fish big Waddingtons off normal spinning gear with a half ounce drilled bullet about a yard up the line. It was a useful method of getting a fly into tight deep corners and on occasions the fish seemed more interested in it than the usual plugs and spinners. Probably this was because they were sick to death with the sight of Rapalas after a week in the river!

So I see no reason why your idea shouldn't work although for me it seems like forcing fly fishing into a situation where it doesn't really work in high water in confined spaces. There is nothing wrong with that however, we all like a different challenge (some even like two handles on a fly reel!).

Knowing the rivers slightly I wonder if targeting the salmon in big water on fly is the way to go. I know when I first saw the Lynher in low water I thought there were only a handful of places that might hold a salmon but when I saw it in high water I couldn't see anywhere that might not hold one. In high water with limited numbers of fish you are looking for a needle in a haystack away from the obvious pools. The suggestion already given of nymphing might be the way to go in low water. You will have far more days of low water than high and in low water you will have the river to yourself. Get in the water and go prospecting in all those cracks and fissures, you will probably find lots of overlooked low water lies. A salmon only needs a pot as big as a bath and a grilse will sit in a whole hardly bigger than a bucket in these little rivers. Once you've found your fish often you have a captive audience, it simply has nowhere to go! Sometimes you will come across a fish in slack water that appears to be asleep. A couple of times I've caught these by repeatedly bouncing a small heavy nymph on their noses right under the rod tip until they wake up and snap at it. It hardly seems like cricket but if it bothers you that much you can always tell people you got it on a small silver stoat with a long cast!

I wouldn't entertain the idea of droppers! Any salmon or grilse hooked in these little overgrown rocky rivers already have enough chances of getting off without adding extra hooks flailing about the place.


Andy

 

[Reg Wyatt]

Here in Dorset and Hampshire the salmon more so summer grilse nymphing evolved from trout nymphing methods used by Frank Sawyer and one Oliver Kite.Whereby a weighted PT nymph lifted from the bottom in front of a fish would very often ''induce'' a postive take.This was close range fishing and I guess a forerunner of what we now term as ''tightline'' nymphing.I was introduced to the salmon/sea trout possibilities using this method by one ''Donny'' Donovan a Keeper on Hampshire's lower test and Graham Purbrick then based at Testwood.Heavy hackled creations were used like Woolly B's and B&P Spiders.Other patterns have evolved since then in the form of heavy nymphs which sink fast to enable the ''lift'' simulating natural prey which hopefully flicks the switch.To be honest it is much like fishing a worm with a sink and draw technique.The worm usually results in a killed fish which is much less desirable nowadays.Water flow will dictate ''nymph'' weight to use.Method based on sight fishing or known lies.My rigs for this are mono based but here is a link to give a very general idea.

JP

Taken me right back there JCP! Wonderful times and the same with Donny Donovan who always used to point out that Sawyer was doing the same thing fifty years earlier. As Andy also says, droppers are a possible disaster for this kind of fishing.
Get onto it Rich, absolutely mesmerising.

Reg Wyatt

 

[Rhithrogena]

Knowing the rivers slightly I wonder if targeting the salmon in big water on fly is the way to go. Get in the water and go prospecting in all those cracks and fissures, you will probably find lots of overlooked low water lies. A salmon only needs a pot as big as a bath and a grilse will sit in a whole hardly bigger than a bucket in these little rivers. Once you've found your fish often you have a captive audience, it simply has nowhere to go! Sometimes you will come across a fish in slack water that appears to be asleep.

I have the advantage of having swum the most local section with snorkel and mask and wetsuit looking for fish so have an idea about some low water lies, and yes I think a nymphing set-up is the kind of thing I am after for low water. No droppers obvs. might use a single dropler and one fly if drop shotting. In high water I plan on trying for running fish in some pool tails which will allow better access and a Spey cast (still not given up on the 2 handled reel ), as well as flicking the right flies around obvious lies on the mono rig.
I'm only 5mins away so can hit the river when it's rising etc.
Should be fun!
Thanks,
Rich

 

[stevel]

I used to go to Asturias in northern spain for salmon for many years, and the guide showed me the local technique for fishing for salmon in deep clear pools. They use very heavy nymphs, on a floss like line like backing on a long light rod, normally a spinning rod. The line is swung upstream and the nymph bumped along the bottom in front of the salmon. He said many of the reported "fly caught" salmon are on heavy nymphs like these using this traditional method.

 

[bennysbuddy]

why not just make a tip for you Skagit head out of T-8 or T-10, that's twenty feet or more long & roll cast it ?

 

[bobmiddlepoint]

why not just make a tip for you Skagit head out of T-8 or T-10, that's twenty feet or more long & roll cast it ?

You really need to see the rivers to get an idea of what tree lined means. Also the rivers aren't 20 feet wide in places and when they are running with a foot or two of water you aren't going to be wading them.

I don't have any pictures of my own of the Lynher but these ones off the Geograph site gives some idea, they are some of the more open bits!

River Lynher at Pillatonmill © Kevin Hale cc-by-sa/2.0

Looking downstream on the River Lynher at Pillatonmill, from the bridge [[179840]]

www.geograph.org.uk

The River Lynher above Newbridge © Rod Allday

SX3468 :: The River Lynher above Newbridge, near to Newbridge, Cornwall, Great Britain by Rod Allday

www.geograph.org.uk

Andy

 

[Rhithrogena]

why not just make a tip for you Skagit head out of T-8 or T-10, that's twenty feet or more long & roll cast it ?

Thanks. The idea is sound - I am going to try all sorts and where I can cast a flyline I will use tips.
There really isn't space to cast in a lot of places and there is often no wadeable spot to cast from - I need a mixture of guerilla tactics.

 

[bennysbuddy]

You really need to see the rivers to get an idea of what tree lined means. Also the rivers aren't 20 feet wide in places and when they are running with a foot or two of water you aren't going to be wading them.

I don't have any pictures of my own of the Lynher but these ones off the Geograph site gives some idea, they are some of the more open bits!

River Lynher at Pillatonmill © Kevin Hale cc-by-sa/2.0

Looking downstream on the River Lynher at Pillatonmill, from the bridge [[179840]]

www.geograph.org.uk

The River Lynher above Newbridge © Rod Allday

SX3468 :: The River Lynher above Newbridge, near to Newbridge, Cornwall, Great Britain by Rod Allday

www.geograph.org.uk

Andy

The problem is now clear to me, a bow& arrow cast might work but it going to be tough going

 

[richardgw]

I fish small Cornish rivers. The beats local to me are totally tree-lined with little safe wading in good water levels. After experimenting with the Mono Rig for trout I want to try casting weighted salmon flies on 15m of 20lb mono on a fly rod and reel with no fly line out of the rod tip. Short range casts will just involve flicking the fly out and releasing coils of mono from my hand. I will also run it past the commitee of the club first but nowhere does it say a flyline must be used.
What are people's views on this?
Much like euro-nymphing some will say it isn't fly fishing. I think it could be a deadly way of presenting a fly in some very tricky spots where no regular fly-cast would work. I am going to experiment with s/h Skagit tips as well.
Does anyone else do anything similar?

French nymphing for trout is regarded as fly fishing by the authorities, so doing the same for salmon will be similarly regarded. But just a couple of words of warning.

To be fly fishing as recognised under EA rules the fly must not exceed 5 grams in weight and should be fished with no other weight on the line. It must also be fished off normal fly fishing tackle so it is a case of just a very long leader on your fly gear.

Fishing flies off a spinning/centrpin set up is regarded as spinning/bait fishing by the authorities and will get you in trouble WHEN fly only regulations apply. But otherwise is an excellent method.

 

[Rhithrogena]

To be fly fishing as recognised under EA rules the fly must not exceed 5 grams in weight and should be fished with no other weight on the line. It must also be fished off normal fly fishing tackle so it is a case of just a very long leader on your fly gear.

I'd not seen these regs - thanks for that. My flies will be lighter than 5g, I'm sure.
So technically adding shot to a leader is outside the EA rules?

 

[clag]

French nymphing for trout is regarded as fly fishing by the authorities, so doing the same for salmon will be similarly regarded. But just a couple of words of warning.

To be fly fishing as recognised under EA rules the fly must not exceed 5 grams in weight and should be fished with no other weight on the line. It must also be fished off normal fly fishing tackle so it is a case of just a very long leader on your fly gear.

Fishing flies off a spinning/centrpin set up is regarded as spinning/bait fishing by the authorities and will get you in trouble WHEN fly only regulations apply. But otherwise is an excellent method.

Hi Richard

It doesn't affect me, but where can you find the EA laws you refer to? I couldn't find any reference to them on the EA Gov pages - e.g. here:

National rod fishing byelaws for England: freshwater fishing with a rod and line

Rod fishing byelaws are rules and regulations explaining who can fish, where, when and what fish you can take in England.

www.gov.uk

Regards

CLaG

 

[bobmiddlepoint]

To be fly fishing as recognised under EA rules the fly must not exceed 5 grams in weight and should be fished with no other weight on the line.

It's a few years since I fished in England but I can never recall a byelaw about fly weight but the bit about no other weight on the line does ring a vague bell.
I've certainly used flies over 5 grams! Three inch brass or copper tubes with added lead or very heavy nymphs on the chalkstreams. Was I in the wrong?

I know one EA on a river where the rules (not byelaws) stated "no shrimp or prawn real or imitation" and he took that to mean no shrimp flies. In his book the Ally's Shrimp was out!


Andy

 

[richardgw]

Hi Richard

It doesn't affect me, but where can you find the EA laws you refer to? I couldn't find any reference to them on the EA Gov pages - e.g. here:

National rod fishing byelaws for England: freshwater fishing with a rod and line

Rod fishing byelaws are rules and regulations explaining who can fish, where, when and what fish you can take in England.

www.gov.uk

Regards

CLaG

The link you have shown are only the Guidance Notes. You need to get hold of the actual signed off bylaws to see the full details including earlier copies to get the complete picture. I had become aware of missing details in the recently rewritten and published Guidance Notes in particular for the Midlands region.

I believe the fly weight restriction was part of the 1998 Spring Salmon Regulations when C&R to 16th June applied for whole of England and Wales. These were renewed in 2018 but I can’t find a copy of the actual signed off documents.

But attached is the signed off NRW bylaw amendments where bylaw 7 (5) on top of page 5 amends the original bylaw 9-5(a) for the River Usk. This specifies fly weight, etc for the period to 1st June during which the river is fly only for salmon and sea trout. With this document even now it needs to be read in conjunction with the earlier documents to understand the full details.

https://cdn.cyfoethnaturiol.cymru/media/690985/all-wales-salmon-and-sea-trout-byelaws-2017-english.pdf

And yes it does raise the question as how we anglers know we are following the bylaws when only simplified guidance notes are issued!?

 

[clag]

The link you have shown are only the Guidance Notes. You need to get hold of the actual signed off bylaws to see the full details including earlier copies to get the complete picture. I had become aware of missing details in the recently rewritten and published Guidance Notes in particular for the Midlands region.

I believe the fly weight restriction was part of the 1998 Spring Salmon Regulations when C&R to 16th June applied for whole of England and Wales. These were renewed in 2018 but I can’t find a copy of the actual signed off documents.

But attached is the signed off NRW bylaw amendments where bylaw 7 (5) on top of page 5 amends the original bylaw 9-5(a) for the River Usk. This specifies fly weight, etc for the period to 1st June during which the river is fly only for salmon and sea trout. With this document even now it needs to be read in conjunction with the earlier documents to understand the full details.

https://cdn.cyfoethnaturiol.cymru/media/690985/all-wales-salmon-and-sea-trout-byelaws-2017-english.pdf

And yes it does raise the question as how we anglers know we are following the bylaws when only simplified guidance notes are issued!?

Many thanks for clearign that up!

Regards

CLaG