Moral dilemma with COVID

ohanzee

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Well tonight he got to call Johan a 'Halfwit' and Walter a 'Hypocritical Gobshyte'.
I'd say he is well chuffed. :LOL:
He does that every night before bed, its like a teenager that you don't need to send, just fk you and off he goes :)
 

kype

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I'm just back from a 6 mile round trip of the woods, along the river, I choose not to fish because we are in a collectively responsible period to prevent the number of cases swamping our free health care, if we act collectively to take that small sacrifice, we all gain..its called looking after your healthcare to help it look after you.
The more of us that act individually the more we encourage others to act individually, its got nothing to do with animal rights or any other bizarre myth Americans buy into.
Now that is some crazy! Please tell me, and use small words so I can understand, what the heck is the difference in exposure to one's self or others between a 6 mile walk along the stream and fly fishing a few pools along the same stream for the same period of time?
I will stop string the pot with some of the outrageous things I say simply for fun in return.
Still do tell me what the difference is and I promise to take this seriously instead of string the pot.

Of Note: It is clear now that covid-19 pt.'s fail when treated with the ARDS protocol ventilation which among other things uses PEEP to increase the O2 Sat. It is beginning to appear that PEEP is dangerous and contributes to poor outcome of these patients.
 

ohanzee

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Now that is some crazy! Please tell me, and use small words so I can understand, what the heck is the difference in exposure to one's self or others between a 6 mile walk along the stream and fly fishing a few pools along the same stream for the same period of time?
I will stop string the pot with some of the outrageous things I say simply for fun in return.
Still do tell me what the difference is and I promise to take this seriously instead of string the pot.

Of Note: It is clear now that covid-19 pt.'s fail when treated with the ARDS protocol ventilation which among other things uses PEEP to increase the O2 Sat. It is beginning to appear that PEEP is dangerous and contributes to poor outcome of these patients.
There is no difference if I were to fish the river I walked along, but the difference that would make is to encourage others to do the same, we either all do it or we all don't, my doing it encourages others to do it, others doing it encourages more and so on, we take the general approach here that collective action is better than everyone doing their own thing, when numbers are such that hospitals can cope we reconsider..collectively, I see few here complaining, how you approach the same problem is up to you.

It seems you have a more open arrangement in the US, looking at the figures it doesn't appear to be working.

Interesting point on PEEPS, you appear the first to mention it.
 

kype

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There is no difference if I were to fish the river I walked along, but the difference that would make is to encourage others to do the same, we either all do it or we all don't, my doing it encourages others to do it, others doing it encourages more and so on, we take the general approach here that collective action is better than everyone doing their own thing, when numbers are such that hospitals can cope we reconsider..collectively, I see few here complaining, how you approach the same problem is up to you.

It seems you have a more open arrangement in the US, looking at the figures it doesn't appear to be working.

Interesting point on PEEPS, you appear the first to mention it.
Testing appears to identify corona virus not necessarily the covid-19 specifically. We have tested more people than most countries an therefor have more positive identifications. That is not to say this is a walk in the park. Nor should the numbers inflate a notion that other countries are doing a better job or are in some way superior to the USA in this matter. All humanity is under attack. We want all of us to survive and remain free. Uniformity is a hall mark of the collective form of Government. Though the USA has been drifting that way for years it is not the American way. Freedom of the individual is the hall mark of the USA since 1776. Twitter has a video from a Brooklyn Dr. pleading for a change in the standard ventilation of pt.'s using the ARDS net protocol. We know most pt.'s that end up on vents die. Please review and please any medical fly fishermen add comment.
 

ohanzee

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Testing appears to identify corona virus not necessarily the covid-19 specifically. We have tested more people than most countries an therefor have more positive identifications. That is not to say this is a walk in the park. Nor should the numbers inflate a notion that other countries are doing a better job or are in some way superior to the USA in this matter. All humanity is under attack. We want all of us to survive and remain free. Uniformity is a hall mark of the collective form of Government. Though the USA has been drifting that way for years it is not the American way. Freedom of the individual is the hall mark of the USA since 1776. Twitter has a video from a Brooklyn Dr. pleading for a change in the standard ventilation of pt.'s using the ARDS net protocol. We know most pt.'s that end up on vents die. Please review and please any medical fly fishermen add comment.
Sounds like you just found out why we are not out fishing, collective responsibility shouldn't threaten your freedom, it just keeps more of us alive.

I'd email your medical council with the concerns, or maybe Tweet it to your president, that seems to be how he gets information, it would save the US buying vents, big problem solved, although I'd be curious what you do as an alternative therapy?
 

aenoon

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Linlithgow, Scotland and anywhere i can wet a line
Now that is some crazy! Please tell me, and use small words so I can understand, what the heck is the difference in exposure to one's self or others between a 6 mile walk along the stream and fly fishing a few pools along the same stream for the same period of time?
I will stop string the pot with some of the outrageous things I say simply for fun in return.
Still do tell me what the difference is and I promise to take this seriously instead of string the pot.

Of Note: It is clear now that covid-19 pt.'s fail when treated with the ARDS protocol ventilation which among other things uses PEEP to increase the O2 Sat. It is beginning to appear that PEEP is dangerous and contributes to poor outcome of these patients.
It is an interesting point though.
"Because PEEP is not a benign mode of therapy and because it can lead to serious hemodynamic consequences, the ventilator operator should have a definite indication to use it. The addition of external PEEP is typically justified when a PaO2 of 60 mm Hg cannot be achieved with an FIO2 of 60% or if the estimated initial shunt fraction is greater than 25%"
IN broad terms, PEEP ventilators work by injecting oxygen at higher than atmospheric pressure, in an attempt to get lungs to function whilst being saturated in fluids, and do so under pressure, so said pressure might actually be dangerous if not properly regulated.
Which would suggest a lot of patients put onto this style of ventilation are not being monitored by qualified staff. Which, given the numbers involved is understandable.
So far, UK figures are suggesting 50% death rate for those having to be ventilated.
Regards
Bert
 

kype

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Earlier in this discussion tossed out 5G with no explanation what so ever. My bad? Here is an article that may have points of interest as we attempt to understand what this is all about.
PEEP stands for Positive End Expiatory Pressure. PEEP is a component of ever ventilation modality there are a number of them. Volume Control, Pressure Control, Pressure Support, Pressure Regulated Volume Control (PRVC Servo I Ventilator) Simonized Intermitment Mandatory Ventilation in bot Volume ventilation and Pressure ventilation, also PRVC Volume Support. I work with Servio I Ventilators and other companies haver their own varing modes of ventilation. PEEP is a component of all of these modes. Crazy stuff!
 

kype

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Earlier in this discussion tossed out 5G with no explanation what so ever. My bad? Here is an article that may have points of interest as we attempt to understand what this is all about.
PEEP stands for Positive End Expiatory Pressure. PEEP is a component of ever ventilation modality there are a number of them. Volume Control, Pressure Control, Pressure Support, Pressure Regulated Volume Control (PRVC Servo I Ventilator) Synchronized Intermittent Mandatory Ventilation in bot Volume ventilation and Pressure ventilation, also PRVC Volume Support. I work with Servo I Ventilators and other companies have their own varing modes of ventilation. PEEP is a component of all of these modes. Crazy stuff!
Some how there some errors in the earlier post I have corrected them here.
 

glueman

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I think you will find that a lot of articles blaming covid19 on 5G have been taken down as absolute garbage. I prefer to believe proper scientists not nutters
 

ohanzee

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PEEP stands for Positive End Expiatory Pressure. PEEP is a component of ever ventilation modality there are a number of them. Volume Control, Pressure Control, Pressure Support, Pressure Regulated Volume Control (PRVC Servo I Ventilator) Simonized Intermitment Mandatory Ventilation in bot Volume ventilation and Pressure ventilation, also PRVC Volume Support. I work with Servio I Ventilators and other companies haver their own varing modes of ventilation. PEEP is a component of all of these modes. Crazy stuff!
Not for professionally trained medical staff, the thing on 5G is the crazy stuff.
 

wrongfoot

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[...] The UN wants 90% human population reduction, open borders, a one world Government [...]
I'm very certain the UN wants none of those things. It's a club of member states none of whom want to kill 90% of their population or surrender juristiction and domestic control entirely.
 

kype

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Hi Bobby, hope you're doing well in those crazy times, long time no see you here!
Good to see you as well! I am working to help people infected with covid-19 these days. Not a lot of action yet but it is coming to my hospital very soon. Nearly the entire hospital has become a negative pressure ICU. Unbelievable what is being done.
People need to listen to alternative health people. I take vitamin C & D as well as zinc to help protect myself and I do not use a cell phone. I got rid of that years ago now.
Trout season starts here in VT on Saturday and the VT F&W Dept is stocking those ponds and streams that are in need of stocking and there is no preventing anglers from fishing. I work the weekends and
will not get out fishing until Monday. I my have pictures to post on the SST some time next week.
Meanwhile stay safe, use a mask and perhaps take supplements as I do unless you have health issues preventing you from doing so.
 

glueman

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Good to see you as well! I am working to help people infected with covid-19 these days. Not a lot of action yet but it is coming to my hospital very soon. Nearly the entire hospital has become a negative pressure ICU. Unbelievable what is being done.
People need to listen to alternative health people. I take vitamin C & D as well as zinc to help protect myself and I do not use a cell phone. I got rid of that years ago now.
Trout season starts here in VT on Saturday and the VT F&W Dept is stocking those ponds and streams that are in need of stocking and there is no preventing anglers from fishing. I work the weekends and
will not get out fishing until Monday. I my have pictures to post on the SST some time next week.
Meanwhile stay safe, use a mask and perhaps take supplements as I do unless you have health issues preventing you from doing so.
Are you trying Trumps experimental cures as he does not need a mask and not long back said it was all a joke, then announced that the USA would be back to normal by Easter, next Sunday unless it is a different date on your side of the pond like in 6 months time
 
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