Moral dilemma with COVID

kingf000

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There's plenty about it.
It's oxygen based apparently it oxidises viruses on contact?

Al
Yes I saw them and noticed they were recommending H2O2, but going back to the source it does say that the recommended use of H2O2 is based upon its ability to kill other viruses that are believed to be more difficult to kill than CV. So it probably does work, by why take the risk when there are other agents that are known to work? I personally use 100% isopropanol, which is highly effective at killing viruses, does not evaporate as quickly as ethanol, is less toxic than either H2O2 or bleach and is reported not to dry out the skin so much. I also like the smell!
 

shropshire_lad

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Too far away from the wild places!
Going back to the original post it's not just fishing I'm seeing this type of behaviour. I follow a cycle camping page on Facebook. There was one guy there, American I think, urging everyone to get out cycle camping as it is the ultimate "self-isolation" activity even though it flouts the rules there. No matter what any sensible contributors said to him he would not change his view.

Totally irresponsible in my view for two main reasons. One, much of this is about setting an example and pulling together regardless of the risks posed by specific activities. It is inevitable in such a fast moving situation that only blanket rules can be applied. Secondly, there's always the risk of an accident. Say someone fell in or had a heart attack whilst at this fishery - what then?

I can't advise on whistle blowing, name-and-shaming, etc, but I suspect the fishery won't last long with that attitude.
 

sean freeman

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I know a lot of yanks that are still out and about camping and fishing. Assumed they weren’t on full lockdown?

With the amount of land they have per capita in the flyover states I’d be social distancing outdoors. It’s a very different situation to here and I’d say the closest you would get to that level of isolation is the Scottish Highlands.
 

shropshire_lad

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Too far away from the wild places!
I know a lot of yanks that are still out and about camping and fishing. Assumed they weren’t on full lockdown?

With the amount of land they have per capita in the flyover states I’d be social distancing outdoors. It’s a very different situation to here and I’d say the closest you would get to that level of isolation is the Scottish Highlands.
I have not been following the specific developments in the States but from the FB discussion I did get the impression the rule was stay at home like here. I still think it's the principle that is important. I live in the congested SE but I could easily cycle off somewhere isolated and set up camp in an hour or two.

Just wondering if there's something the EA could do with rod licences that would make the situation easier to manage, i.e., a temporary revocation? I imagine some will be looking for a refund anyway.
 

lhomme

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Indeed, so why call me names on a post about what might be theoretically possible about fishing?
Think you too should back off a bit.
Regards
Bert
You may think what you want, he told you first he LOST three family members, you went straight over it. When he said you digested his post well, you didn't even mention his loss, you only said you had family "in hospital", too. Then, when I asked you to read his post again, you replied you are "two down worldwide on your side". Does this mean the family members you had in hospital are deceased in the meantime, or are these other family members? In which case your family seems to be struck severely. Again, my sympathy goes out to you and all who may lose beloved ones, maybe you could show the same to people who need it, too, in these trying times.
Nobody tells me to back off, not even a bit, without being called out to tell the truth and nothing but the truth. No regards from me till then, Bert.
 

kingf000

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This has moved a long way on from my original post, but maybe it is time to name and shame? I assume the club is still allowing fishing as I haven't heard anything to the contrary. The club is the Causeway Flyfishers in Essex. So if you have little social conscience and want to continue fishing in these troubled times, the I'm sure they would be keen to accept new members.
 

kingf000

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Just noticed this on the Angling trust website:

UPDATE ON 28/03/2020


The Government have made it clear that all outdoor sporting activity should cease and all the major governing bodies have issued advice accordingly, including the Angling Trust.


Daily exercise in the form of running, walking or cycling starting or ending from home is permissible.


The police now have legal powers to fine people for undertaking non essential journeys.


However, the Angling Trust is working on a set of guidelines for recreational fishing that we will be putting to Government, once the virus has peaked, that could be applied when relaxing the rules to allow certain, largely solitary activities to resume. We will publish these in due course.
 

ohanzee

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There does seem to be a conflict of policy that might explain some of the current differences of opinion...

The UK message is slightly more open than the one in Scotland.
 

Secret Angler

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I would shop them because they are breaking the law. The rules are very clear, and angling is not an allowed activity, even if you're alone. Hopefully, one of the first relaxations in the lockdown may be for individuals to go out and about provided there is no gathering of people - good for anglers. Those currently flouting the rules will only make this more unlikely.
 

Secret Angler

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However, the Angling Trust is working on a set of guidelines for recreational fishing that we will be putting to Government, once the virus has peaked, that could be applied when relaxing the rules to allow certain, largely solitary activities to resume. We will publish these in due course.
Fingers crossed. Until then we should stay away (and I live within cycling distance of my local river).
 

ohanzee

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I would shop them because they are breaking the law. The rules are very clear, and angling is not an allowed activity, even if you're alone. Hopefully, one of the first relaxations in the lockdown may be for individuals to go out and about provided there is no gathering of people - good for anglers. Those currently flouting the rules will only make this more unlikely.
I suspect there is some confusion, looking here it appears to me that the police would have closed them.
 

parrot

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I know a lot of yanks that are still out and about camping and fishing. Assumed they weren’t on full lockdown?

With the amount of land they have per capita in the flyover states I’d be social distancing outdoors. It’s a very different situation to here and I’d say the closest you would get to that level of isolation is the Scottish Highlands.
Lockdown in the US is on a state by state basis - some are and some are not. It gets even more complicated in some states, such as Texas, where it is down to individual counties whether they implement a lockdown. I did note that four more states implemented lockdown yesterday.
 

anzac

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I agree, but in the eye of the storm well-being and mental health can take a back seat, there will be a time and a place for that, afterwards.
Forgive my insensitivity but we've lost two aunts and an uncle on my wife's side in the east of France, we are a close family.
Anything you can do to stop it spreading, even if it effects your well being for a few months. As far as mental health is concerned, well, we are all victims of a 21st century plague, all of us are feeling insecure, depressed, angry and uncertain, but its not exclusive.
Sorry, I'm not feeling very empathetic at the moment.
True, and unless one is psychotically OCD, there are many, many other ways to preserve one's mental well-being.
 

anzac

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Eat the meat, floss your teeth at the same time.
What's funny about this is that I knew a family with 5 kids in Australia (nextdoor neighbours in fact), and the father regularly 'harvested' a sheep from a paddock down the bottom of the road. He was always under suspicion, but everything was portioned and all evidence (hide, etc.) disposed of before the police arrived.

This was back in the 1960s.
 

ed_t

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You need to double check but Hydrogen peroxide h202 makes a suitable sanitiser.
Afaik that's what's used to clean/sanatise food stuffs like fruit and veg.

Al
Chlorine is more common. Sodium hypochlirite as a common delivery medium. The yanks use low dose on chicken but some fruit loops get all uppity even though eu fruit and salad is washed at higher concentration.

Be nice if tap water these days had the strong chlorine whiff of yore.
 

glueman

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I think cycling should be banned. Just been on my daily walk and was passed by a cyclist going in the same direction. About 5 metres in front of me he sneezed into the air, not a tissue or his arm the air
 

speytime

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That's behaviour is not restricted to people on bikes, that brainless **** would have done that just same had he been on foot, i think it's a bit harsh on the sensible cyclists.

On Monday a chap I know well walked up to me when I backed off he appeared offended muttering something along the lines of 'I'm not that infectious, then later on someone else that's telling me there wife has CV symptoms kept getting closer again I had to back of.
Some people are just fcking stupid.
Another woman is going about the main st telling people her husband has died with CV... Wtf is she doing out, how much clearer can the Gov guidelines be???

What do we do when people can't follow simple guidelines?

Al
 

kingf000

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That was an argument that I used what now seems like weeks ago. I can't think of a better way for an infected person to spread the virus as quickly and widely as possible then riding a bike through a built up area. I'm sure the only reason cycling was allowed was because Boris is a regular cyclist. A pity he isn't a fly fisherman.
 

ohanzee

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Moral dilemma, I have been in self isolation in Glasgow for over a week, in the same clothes, clothes at my home an hours drive away, there is also some non critical medication, supplies, and packages that have been delivered, and generally check the house is safe.
I would be in isolation on the way, and there, and back but potentially be breaking the non essential travel advice.
My risk assessment would appear to only breaking down/crashing, walking a long distance, and having car towed.

What say the moral dilemma committee?
 

speytime

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I would say travelling to check on your home and get clothes is essential travel, i don't think the authorities are concerned with people like yourself Al its people deliberately flouting the rules just to do what they want, which you are not.

Update...
The chap I was whinging about earlier who's wife has cv symptoms has been taken into hospital... Great the husband and two daughters are still going to the local shops wtf happening to self isolation :-(

Al
 
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