More beavers released

wobbly face

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BobP, I read through the links kindly provided by the others and I was somewhat confused at first about the part that said "beaver dams hold water above relieving flooding downstream, yet in drought conditions allow water down stream." :confused: On further reading it did say the dams were leaky, hence water being slowly released. It also went on to say that it didn't stop fish migration and first finds are that the fish got bigger.

On the whole, after reading the reports and such I felt it was a case of "It will work no matter what!" All the so called scientists in favour, only one poor farmer against. And, scientists regulating scientists? Plus scientists putting in reports to government!
I first heard about releasing beavers some years ago, the TV coverage at the time stating the European beaver is smaller and has a lesser impact on the environment than it's American cousin. This was probably the argument to give the project the go ahead.
Perhaps it would have been better to study and observe what the beavers got up to in the Scandinavian countries and on what scale, land area needed and such for a few years longer before it got the go ahead here.
 

taffy1

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Didn't all this occur while beavers were a natural occupant of the UK many hundreds of years ago? Fish & invertebrate species survived that, heck, they even survived a damn (no pun intended) cold period known as the "ice age".
 

Cap'n Fishy

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... if you have Twitter on android is it easy to get the photo location from it?
It would depend on whether the camera that took the photo was GPS-enabled, and on whether it was switched on at the time, and on whether the person posting the photo preserved the Exif data.

I have GPS, and I preserve Exif, but the person who pointed me at this beaver activity asked me not to disclose the location, so I turned the GPS off...


Example - when it all works...

Where is this?



Right-click (with an Exif reader installed)



Shows the exact location coordinates - even the height above sea level! If you want the map, just click on 'Locate on OpenStreetMap', which pulls up this...



Col
 
G

guest54

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Didn't all this occur while beavers were a natural occupant of the UK many hundreds of years ago? Fish & invertebrate species survived that, heck, they even survived a damn (no pun intended) cold period known as the "ice age".
Yes but, they were then one part of a much more diverse environment, bears,wolves, elk, auroch, lynx and no introduced species to have to compete with. The human population was then numbered in tens of thousands, at most, not tens of millions as now.
 

squimp

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Come and see the damage caused by beavers in the Cotswold Water Park....

Escapees (allegedly) from a so called secure enclosure on Lower Mill Estate, Somerford Keynes have caused plenty of damage to local property. Numerous trees up to 15m dropped and small streams 'dammed' on a nightly basis. I cannot see any of the alleged benefits of re-introduction.

None of the conservation bodies appear concerned about the amount of money (millions!) spent 'clearing up' after beavers in several central European countries.....

Beavers have already achieved protected species status in Scotland and it wont be long before that status covers the rest of England and Wales.

Natural England appear to be running a series of 'soft releases' to start a re-introduction programme without the hype associated with a 'full on National re-introduction programme'.


As somebody else has said - be careful what you wish for...…….
 

BobP

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Good point Bob... I permanent man made concrete dam is exactly the same as a dam made by branches, twigs and earth:thumbs:
Admittedly the ‘bright sparks’ won’t ever have you all encompassing knowledge of absolutely everything to do with rivers
Did I say that? No, I didn't. Or do you consider it wrong for anyone to have a point of view? Do I have an all-encompassing knowledge of absolutely everything to do with rivers? No, I do not and have never claimed to have. However, 40 years working in fisheries management does tend to give one a few ideas as well as not taking anything for granted.

I have, at least, seen the works of beavers in British Columbia and they are rather impressive. Reading the links re the European beaver I get the feeling that while they might be smaller than their North American cousin they are still more then capable of constructing some decent dams in rivers.

I don't think it at all out of place to ask the "what if" questions. They want to do a trial for five years - fine. What if it doesn't work? You've then got two or three more generations of hydraulic engineers busy in places that you may well not want them to be. Then what?
 

moorsman1969

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On a lighter note my wife’s beaver only looks aggressive if she lets it grow like a scousers hair in the 80s, trim it down and it’s more like a *****. But whoa it needs a good log a few times a week. I’ve been carrying this personal study out for 12 years and I’ve come to the conclusion that although bear vets are very nice and furry they should never be let out of the bedroom


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scobo

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On a lighter note my wife’s beaver only looks aggressive if she lets it grow like a scousers hair in the 80s, trim it down and it’s more like a *****. But whoa it needs a good log a few times a week. I’ve been carrying this personal study out for 12 years and I’ve come to the conclusion that although bear vets are very nice and furry they should never be let out of the bedroom


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Bear vets ?? :biggrin:
 

williegunn

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On a lighter note my wife’s beaver only looks aggressive if she lets it grow like a scousers hair in the 80s, trim it down and it’s more like a *****. But whoa it needs a good log a few times a week. I’ve been carrying this personal study out for 12 years and I’ve come to the conclusion that although bear vets are very nice and furry they should never be let out of the bedroom


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I'm surprised it took 3 pages for the beaver jokes to appea, the forum is not what it was!
 

Mark Powell

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…...only one poor farmer against...…..
As 85% of UK farm income is subsidy he'd be even poorer if we weren't forced to give him money whether we eat his produce or not :)

And I see the farmer's NWU (National Whingers Union) is already objecting to the Lynx despite that in the many parts of Europe where they are still indigenous only a total of about twenty sheep, lambs, chickens, and piglets get eaten by them every year. And also despite that the introducers will arrange insurance to pay for every single one.

And none of those farm animals were ever 'natural' to the UK anyway. Whereas the beaver and the lynx were. Maybe the lynx will eat most of the beavers so everyone's happy.

Also the UK is extremely poor on the diversity of the remaining wildlife compared to the rest of Europe..

Where I mostly trout fish (a Hampshire chalk stream) is a 4000 acre farm with the river flowing through it. They don't remove anything from the river, not even the pike as "they were here before we were" and the same goes for the otters and pine martens.
 
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lipslicker

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My understanding - a very basic understanding - is that, when beavers and wolves were encouraged back into areas of the US where their numbers had depleted, the outcomes for a whole range of biodiversity were excellent.
Beavers regulated water flow through the year.
They also created diverse environments - pools, naturally, but also water meadows and wetland areas.
These were good for insects, different aquatic birds, and many juvenile fish.

The wolves kept deer numbers in check, eradicated the old, sick and injured, and also kept the herds on the move, ensuring they did not overgraze areas. This allowed a wider array of plant life to flourish, as well as giving saplings time to establish.

The saplings grew to create another environment, protected the hillsides from erosion and provided sanctuary to a host of other animals.

It might not be all bad news?
Just a thought.
 

williegunn

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UK population about 66million.
USA population about 326 million

Area of UK 242 495 km2
Area of USA 9 834 000 km2

There seems to be a bit more space in the USA for beavers and wolves.
 

diawl bach

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My understanding - a very basic understanding - is that, when beavers and wolves were encouraged back into areas of the US where their numbers had depleted, the outcomes for a whole range of biodiversity were excellent.
Beavers regulated water flow through the year.
They also created diverse environments - pools, naturally, but also water meadows and wetland areas.
These were good for insects, different aquatic birds, and many juvenile fish.

The wolves kept deer numbers in check, eradicated the old, sick and injured, and also kept the herds on the move, ensuring they did not overgraze areas. This allowed a wider array of plant life to flourish, as well as giving saplings time to establish.

The saplings grew to create another environment, protected the hillsides from erosion and provided sanctuary to a host of other animals.

It might not be all bad news?
Just a thought.
The saplings grew after they ate the sodding beavers.
 

ohanzee

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My understanding - a very basic understanding - is that, when beavers and wolves were encouraged back into areas of the US where their numbers had depleted, the outcomes for a whole range of biodiversity were excellent.
Beavers regulated water flow through the year.
I'm sure they do, but even though we in the UK like to look at nature, we don't really like it when it ruins the lawn or causes a flood.
 
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