Needle Knot

FlyForumAdmin

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Needle knot


Use: Attaching backing to fly line.

Description: This is a good knot to use to attach the end of the backing to the fly line or a thick nylon leader butt. It can be tied with a nail or, more easily, with either a tube or a needle.

Tying:

1. To tie this knot you will need a strong needle with an eye large enough to take the backing or nylon that you are using.

need1_m.jpeg




2. Push the needle into the centre of the core of the fly line and out through the side wall, about 5mm from the end of the line.

need2_m.jpeg




3. Thread the end of the backing or nylon through the eye of the needle and use the needle to pull about 100mm of backing or nylon through the fly line, out through the side.

need3_m.jpeg




4. Now lay the needle against the fly line with the eye in line with the end of the line. Make three turns of the backing or nylon around the line and needle, working toward the eye of the needle. Thread the backing or nylon through the eye and withdraw the needle and nylon.

need4_m.jpeg




5. Remove the needle and carefully tighten the turns, taking care that they do not overlap. Do not over-tighten the knot as this can cause a dog-leg in the fly line.

6. Trim off the tag end of the backing or nylon close to the line.

need6_m.jpeg




Graphics of knots drawn by Tim Pegg of Thilmcraft Graphics. E-mail: thilm@paston.co.uk
 

Mostyn

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Great to see an SBS of how to accomplish a nail knot! I used to warm the needle point then withdraw it from the fly line! the heat in the needle would create a hole in the fly line just large enough to thread your mono through - instead of trying to pull the eye of the needle and mono through the line.
 

lhomme

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Is admin giving us a subtle hint on a new sticky thread coming up called "knots"? Would be a good idea for all struggling with it, love the clear SBS graphics.

Johan
 

overthehill

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Oct 8, 2012
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I tried this knot today on an offcut of line. I wasn't sure how far up the needle should come back out of the line until I googled it and came up with the same diagram as that above, which says it should be 5mm. This seems to be only a short way for the line to go in and come out again and this being so, is the knot stable (could it result in cutting through the coating when pressure is put on it)? Would it be more stable if you inserted the needle a bit further before it came out? Do experienced anglers recommend this knot, or would you use something that made it a bit easier to change the leader? Is it only recommended for mono leaders? Sorry if this is like "20 Questions". To date, I've used braided connectors but I like the idea of this knot. Just not sure whether its the best one to use.
 

3lbgrayling

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The Flyline needs to have a Braided core.You cannot do it with a mono core.(that needs a nail knot or braided loop.)
I think 1/2 an inch is better.
The needle when passed up the core of the braid is very secure

Jim
 

richardw

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May 18, 2006
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On the banks of the Derbyshire Wye
Needle knot


Use: Attaching backing to fly line.

Description: This is a good knot to use to attach the end of the backing to the fly line or a thick nylon leader butt. It can be tied with a nail or, more easily, with either a tube or a needle.

Tying:

1. To tie this knot you will need a strong needle with an eye large enough to take the backing or nylon that you are using.

need1_m.jpeg




2. Push the needle into the centre of the core of the fly line and out through the side wall, about 5mm from the end of the line.

need2_m.jpeg




3. Thread the end of the backing or nylon through the eye of the needle and use the needle to pull about 100mm of backing or nylon through the fly line, out through the side.

need3_m.jpeg




4. Now lay the needle against the fly line with the eye in line with the end of the line. Make three turns of the backing or nylon around the line and needle, working toward the eye of the needle. Thread the backing or nylon through the eye and withdraw the needle and nylon.

need4_m.jpeg




5. Remove the needle and carefully tighten the turns, taking care that they do not overlap. Do not over-tighten the knot as this can cause a dog-leg in the fly line.

6. Trim off the tag end of the backing or nylon close to the line.

need6_m.jpeg




Graphics of knots drawn by Tim Pegg of Thilmcraft Graphics. E-mail: thilm@paston.co.uk

Here's the actual way to do it. How anyone imagines they will be able to thread 0.4mm monofilament through the eye of a needle and then use the needle to pull the doubled over monofilament through the end of a fly line is beyond me. It simply shows that the OP has never used the method as it cannot possibly work! Stick to advising folk with stuff you've found out by actually doing it please!!!!:eek:mg:

NeedleKnot.jpg



richard
 

richardw

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On the banks of the Derbyshire Wye
I tried this knot today on an offcut of line. I wasn't sure how far up the needle should come back out of the line until I googled it and came up with the same diagram as that above, which says it should be 5mm. This seems to be only a short way for the line to go in and come out again and this being so, is the knot stable (could it result in cutting through the coating when pressure is put on it)? Would it be more stable if you inserted the needle a bit further before it came out? Do experienced anglers recommend this knot, or would you use something that made it a bit easier to change the leader? Is it only recommended for mono leaders? Sorry if this is like "20 Questions". To date, I've used braided connectors but I like the idea of this knot. Just not sure whether its the best one to use.

The diagram is crαp although beautifully rendered in colour. The description is also crαp as it proves that the writer has never used it.

Here's how to do it and it goes some way to answering your reasonable questions, especially if you scroll down and read the "comments"...

Dry Fly 'Expert': Leader linguistics, tippet talk and tips...

richard
 

overthehill

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Oct 8, 2012
Messages
238
I have read your recommended text and am now a bit more clued up. I have always used tapered leaders attached to a braided loop, with a tippet attached, and have never tried building my own, but I will have a go. If this method is only recommended for dry fly fishing, what method of leader attachment should one use for wets? Or can you use the same butt section and just change the rest of it for leader with droppers on? Or have I got it completely wrong? I am very new to fly fishing and appreciate your patience!
 

3lbgrayling

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You can use it for all methods of fishing.It is not restricted to dry fly only.
But just to keep the record straight.I only use home made braided loops for all my fishing from floating to HI DI and Salmon lines.I have no problems with this method.and done 'PROPERLY' will give you no worries.

Jim
 
Last edited:

richardw

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I have read your recommended text and am now a bit more clued up. I have always used tapered leaders attached to a braided loop, with a tippet attached, and have never tried building my own, but I will have a go. If this method is only recommended for dry fly fishing, what method of leader attachment should one use for wets? Or can you use the same butt section and just change the rest of it for leader with droppers on? Or have I got it completely wrong? I am very new to fly fishing and appreciate your patience!

I use the same method for all my fly fishing, including wets and pike lures. The dimensions are different but the knots are the same. For droppers just add them as required using the figure-of-eight knot.
:thumbs:
richard
 

overthehill

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Oct 8, 2012
Messages
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Gentlemen, I have failed. Tried it on a new John Norris Pro2 floater. I decided to try to put a 4X tapered leader on it. Got the needle into the fly line, did the melty bit, got the leader in, but couldn't tie the knot! I am not hamfisted - being a female of the species, I'm pretty good with the old needlework, but this has completely baffled me - it just ended up a complete mess and kept coming apart. Then I completely lost it and had a hissy fit (wimmin eh?) so I have resorted to a braided loop, but I may try again on another line when I've calmed down a bit! I reckon the butt section of the tapered leader was too stiff, and perhaps I should have used a straight through mono or something similar. Thank you anyway for all your good advice.
 

BRUCE1

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Gentlemen, I have failed. Tried it on a new John Norris Pro2 floater. I decided to try to put a 4X tapered leader on it. Got the needle into the fly line, did the melty bit, got the leader in, but couldn't tie the knot! I am not hamfisted - being a female of the species, I'm pretty good with the old needlework, but this has completely baffled me - it just ended up a complete mess and kept coming apart. Then I completely lost it and had a hissy fit (wimmin eh?) so I have resorted to a braided loop, but I may try again on another line when I've calmed down a bit! I reckon the butt section of the tapered leader was too stiff, and perhaps I should have used a straight through mono or something similar. Thank you anyway for all your good advice.

Ohanzee (Alan) had a SBS of another method which doesnt entail any knot ,just a needle ,a bit of sandpaper and some superglue(zap a gap) as it takes a bit longer to "set" and is waterproof unlike other superglues:thumbs: i shall ask him if he can find the link and post it here :thumbs:
 

richardw

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On the banks of the Derbyshire Wye
Gentlemen, I have failed. Tried it on a new John Norris Pro2 floater. I decided to try to put a 4X tapered leader on it. Got the needle into the fly line, did the melty bit, got the leader in, but couldn't tie the knot! I am not hamfisted - being a female of the species, I'm pretty good with the old needlework, but this has completely baffled me - it just ended up a complete mess and kept coming apart. Then I completely lost it and had a hissy fit (wimmin eh?) so I have resorted to a braided loop, but I may try again on another line when I've calmed down a bit! I reckon the butt section of the tapered leader was too stiff, and perhaps I should have used a straight through mono or something similar. Thank you anyway for all your good advice.

Where do you live? If you are near Bakewell bring it round and I'll tie it for you and show you first hand. It's easy once you have the knack (particularly holding the coils until the last turn and just before you pull the ends tight).

richard
 

ohanzee

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this is what Bruce's 'no knot' join looks like, same as Franks SBS, everyone now asks do they pull out:) done right they are as strong as a nail knot.

ohanzee-albums-ohanzee-s-pics-picture6247-al-002.jpg
 

dutchy1978

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Here's the actual way to do it. How anyone imagines they will be able to thread 0.4mm monofilament through the eye of a needle and then use the needle to pull the doubled over monofilament through the end of a fly line is beyond me. It simply shows that the OP has never used the method as it cannot possibly work! Stick to advising folk with stuff you've found out by actually doing it please!!!!:eek:mg:

NeedleKnot.jpg



richard

Richard, your on fire, is there anything you dont know? Further more i would like to ask if you know a C&F nail knot tool? I know its a bit modern and maybe to shiny for the banks of the Wye but the knot will work if you use that tool.. I know it is probably against all sorts of tradition and not how they did it before ww1 but it works like a charm!

Of course Ohanzee's method is very nice also and probably the best conection if you like to use long leaders.

J
 

richardw

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On the banks of the Derbyshire Wye
Richard, your on fire, is there anything you dont know? Further more i would like to ask if you know a C&F nail knot tool? I know its a bit modern and maybe to shiny for the banks of the Wye but the knot will work if you use that tool.. I know it is probably against all sorts of tradition and not how they did it before ww1 but it works like a charm!

Of course Ohanzee's method is very nice also and probably the best conection if you like to use long leaders.

J

I have to admit I am not familiar with this tool. I do use the nail knot for fastening the backing to the flyline, but I always use the needle knot for the flyline to leader connection. The nail knot I tie is the same as the needle knot but with all the needle aspect omitted.

richard
 

dutchy1978

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I have to admit I am not familiar with this tool. I do use the nail knot for fastening the backing to the flyline, but I always use the needle knot for the flyline to leader connection. The nail knot I tie is the same as the needle knot but with all the needle aspect omitted.

richard

No worries Richard your way is good to, i was just having some fun, i'm talking shop bought leaders so i start at the thin end.. Its a pain to get a doubled up 0.40 through your four weight line like you said..

J
 

beryl

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Mar 18, 2012
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For what it's worth.. I shoved a needle as far as possible up the centre of a 3#. Heated the needle briefly to cause the hole created not to close. I then sharpened and roughened a standard leader butt.(Grommits) I then smeared it with standard Araldite and stuck the two together. Left to cure for 24hrs this served me well for most of the season yanking flies out of the undergrowth and landing trout to a pound and a half. It never failed. I just started mucking about with furled leaders. Simples really.
 
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